Identifying wood

[Peto]

Hello All,
Just a little intro first.
I came across wood from an Aussie guitar builder many years back and bought as much as I could. Now that I have more time to start working on a guitar I would like to know the name of the species of wood that I bought back then.
I worked at my grandfather's workshop in South America and as you might guess, it was always rosewood and spruce.
I can Id and smell rosewood a mile away but the other pieces that I bought I have no clue.
I could id blackwood and mahogany, King Williams was easy because of the smell, but there are some that I have no clue and I would like to use in my next build.
I am willing to pay for your time. If you are not too far I could load some pieces in my car and bring them where you live or if you prefer you can come to my place.
I am adding some pictures here

maybe someone would know.

[Jack]

Hi Peto
I only dream of of using Brazilian Rosewood!!!
That looks a lot like King Billy to me
Makes a nice guitar

cheers
Frank

[kiwigeo]

Looks a bit like cedar....

[Bruce McC]

Hey Peto

Give us a clue, where are you?

[TallDad71]

Measure them and calculate the densities, that will help an awful lot when researching on a wood database.

Definitely looks cedar ish

[Peto]

That was 35+ years ago in Buenos Aires. I am not sure about the situation of rosewood and what restrictions apply nowadays in Argentina, but I am sure it would not be as expensive as it is here.
I am in Lower Templestowe. coming back to this craft after more than 35 years, there is some muscle memory still there, but I am totally lost when shopping around for tools and tonewood.

Thanks for all the responses so far. I will add a few more photos soon, there is one set of beautiful red, pinkish, rose. I would like to use it soon here it is, no idea what species it is.

Ric

[sleake]

That looks like King Billy pine to me.

Interesting that you said that you know the smell of 'King William pine'....... perhaps you have Huon and King william pine confused? Huon is a golden colour with a really distinctive and wonderful smell, while king billy is more pink and doesn't really have a particularly strong smell.

Anyway, thought that might help a little.

[peter.coombe]

After looking at the picture closely, I can't tell if it is King Billy Pine or Western Red Cedar, but if I had to guess I would choose King Billy Pine. Cedar is usually darker, but some pieces I have are exactly the same colour as King Billy, and equally as fine grained. The only way to tell is to smell it. King Billy has a characteristic sweet smell, and Cedar smells like, well Cedar (not so sweet). If it is King Billy Pine, it looks like a particularly nice piece, which is exceedingly rare nowadays, so you are lucky.

[Fisherman]

Could it be celery top pine?

[peter.coombe]

Could it be celery top pine?

Nope.

[Peto]

After looking at the picture closely, I can't tell if it is King Billy Pine or Western Red Cedar, but if I had to guess I would choose King Billy Pine. Cedar is usually darker, but some pieces I have are exactly the same colour as King Billy, and equally as fine grained. The only way to tell is to smell it. King Billy has a characteristic sweet smell, and Cedar smells like, well Cedar (not so sweet). If it is King Billy Pine, it looks like a particularly nice piece, which is exceedingly rare nowadays, so you are lucky.

I have some King Billy tops and you are correct the smell it is very specific, sadly that piece that I am holding doesn't even have a smell or it is too subtle.
they are not wide enough to guitar tops so they might end up as necks.

Ric

[Peto]

another piece, this one is very unique, I m sure someone will know this one.
Thanks for all your responses.
Ric

[Jack]

Hi Ric
ok i'll have a guess and say it's Tasmanian Myrtle
Which is one of my favourites for backs, sides and sometimes necks
There is a book by Keith R. Bootle 'Wood in Australia' which I find quite helpful for this sort of stuff.
I have a workshop in Melbourne's South Eastern suburbs full of machines if your interested
What sort of tools are you after? There is the Vintage Tool Shop in Northcote, maybe a look in?

Cheers
Frank

[GregL]

Hi Ric,

The first pic looks to me like it could be either King Billy Pine or Western Red Cedar.
The second pic definitiely looks to me like Rose Mahogany aka NSW Rosewood, Dysoxylum fraserianum.

Thanks,
GregL.

[kiwigeo]

I'm going to be the odd one out here and say Blackwood..Ive got a few sets of same that look a lot like the stuff in the photos.

[Bruce McC]

I am with Martin #1 Thuja plicata, # 2 Acacia melanoxylon.

[J.F. Custom]

OK, so perhaps I am missing an important detail here but...

Although you purchased this timber in Australia, do you know that the timber itself is Australian in origin?? This information can help to narrow it down. Any timber identification from pictures alone is an educated guess, at very best. But I do love a guessing game, so I'm in!

If we are to assume like many luthiers in Australia, they had a mix of native and exotic species, I would suggest:

• Picture 1: Old Redwood (Sequoia) or Western Red Cedar (Thuja). The latter should be identifiable by its smell readily enough, which you say is not present. It may be old and therefore not as noticeable, but a quick sand or cut would bring about its scent again. If you do this test and still have no smell, I would definitely guess Redwood. I've dealt with a fair amount of King Billy and it's not quite the right colour or grain for me - at least, not as much as Redwood etc. King Billy also has quite a distinctive smell - no, not like Huon, but pleasant and notable in its own right. Of course, my opinion only.

• Picture 2: Tricky. Australian Blackwood (Acacia Melanoxylon) is a definite contender. The variation in colour like this is quite common. The Rose Mahogany/NSW Scented Rosewood mentioned above (Dysolxylum - which has a strong odour when worked too) is also possible, though its bands don't vary so much usually. Even Australian Red Cedar (Toona) can be like that on occasion. But if we were to include exotic species, there would be many others that could fit. Some of the Mahogany family from genuine Cuban (Swietenia), to Sapele and Utile for example, though I think you mentioned being able to ID some of those, so I'd lean back to the Australian candidates as the most likely.

As mentioned above, weights and dimensions would provide you the cubic dry weight, which could help - but it would still be guesswork from our lounge rooms. I'm no longer in Victoria - so can't help there!

Jeremy

[Peto]

Hello,
Thanks for all that information.
In the lot I bought I had: Fiji and Brazilian mahogany, Bubinga tops, Sycamore and Engleman spruce. I guess that the wood without a name could be from anywhere, no just Australia although 70% was made of Tassie Blackwood back and sides.
I will bring the mystery pieces outside and try to get a better representation in terms of colour because the pictures I uploaded are not as vivid as the real pieces, especially the second picture.
Thanks again for all the help.
Ric

[Peto]

I hope this helps.

going by smell, the left piece is neck material that I know is red cedar with a very subtle cedar-ish smell.
The middle is the kind of cedar that inundates the workshop as soon as you touch it. very strong cedar smell.
Now on the right is the mystery wood 1. no smell or very subtle.

[Peto]

The second piece:

There is a pinkish hue that doesn't show in the picture. No smell or generic hot wood smell.

[Peto]

This lot came in one pack and looks part of the same tree as it has a lot of holes and the exposed grain painted white. It is very very resonant when tapping, generic wood smell.

[Peto]

Last one, the one on the left has mistakingly written in pencil blackwood, but Is not, smells slightly like cedar and I believe it to be cedar.
On the right similar in colour, a bit darker, but the grain is different, and has a generic warm wood smell.

That is all my mystery wood for now.
I truly appreciate the responses even if they are wild guesses:)

Ric

[Peto]

Hi Ric
ok i'll have a guess and say it's Tasmanian Myrtle
Which is one of my favourites for backs, sides and sometimes necks
There is a book by Keith R. Bootle 'Wood in Australia' which I find quite helpful for this sort of stuff.
I have a workshop in Melbourne's South Eastern suburbs full of machines if your interested
What sort of tools are you after? There is the Vintage Tool Shop in Northcote, maybe a look in?

Cheers
Frank

Hi Frank,
Not, Tasmanian Myrtle, I have some and the weight and hue are very different.
regarding tools and materials that I need could be more like knowing where to buy and avoid, to some extent the huge mark-ups here.
For instance, I have a lot of vintage and collector planes and chisels, but I thought maybe I am missing on something that new tools provide so I went to (I rather don't mention names here) a shop in Springvale and I found a 4/5 low angle plane was selling for more than $400 so I quickly came back home and re-sharpen my own one
I would like to upgrade my bandsaw so I can cut billets and have a more sturdy base.
Some Jigs are way waaay to expensive.
And finally, I would like to find a place to buy tonewood overseas because again the profit margins buying locally seem crazy. I don't want to irritate anyone complaining about their business model but I had to start looking overseas for wood.
Maybe it is because I am not selling the guitars I build guitars so it hurts a bit more

"I have a workshop in Melbourne's South Eastern suburbs full of machines if you are interested"

I would definitely like to visit when this lockdown is over.
My mob is: 0468 325 342 if you text me some details we could arrange a day and time provided that I can escape my wife's gaze and suspicion of another tool shopping spree
Thanks in advance,
Ric

[Peto]

I found this as Sequoia, It looks exactly like those tops I mentioned with white paint on the open wood.