New member new build

[hillbillybass]

Hi all. New member from Melbourne, Australia.

I'm Michael, a (former) school teacher and self taught double bass player who likes to build stuff. In the past I've made 7 string Lyre from blackwood, a Savart Fiddle from Blackwood and King Billy pine and a Stew Mac kit violin.

I finished up with teaching at the end of last year and now that I'm not "working" so to speak, I have the time to build my own double bass out of Australian timbers.

I'm planning to build a flatback bass with a detachable neck and a side access port.

The timbers I'm thinking of using are - Queensland Maple (neck), either Queensland Maple, Tasmanian Myrtle or Blackwood (sides and maybe back), and Australian cedar for the top and willow (corner blocks and end block).

Most of what I've done so far is preparation work, building clamps, slowly accumulating timber, reading and research, talking to other double bass builders, etc. I'm currently reading Peter Chandler's book and Harry Wake's book while waiting for plans to arrive in the post. I'm not in a hurry and I'm going to have heaps of questions as I go, but to begin with:

1) What timber should I use for the neck block if I want the bass to have a detachable neck? Is willow ok or should I think about using something else (e.g. Qld Maple, Mahogany).

2) Where is a good place in Australia to buy double bass sized timbers? In particular - when I can afford it - which timber suppliers might stock decent double bass sized quarter sawn pieces of Australian Red Cedar?

3) I'm thinking of making the flatback from birch plywood and a veneer of blackwood or myrtle (Pros: no cracking, less movement, more durable. Cons: tone). Has anyone tried this? How did it turn out?

Cheers and thanks in advance.

[kiwigeo]

Welcome to the forum Michael,

Matthew is our double bass expert....he's not a regular poster but hopefully he'll get to see your post eventually and respond.

[ozziebluesman]

Welcome Michael,
Hope you get as much good info from this forum as I have.
Some pics of your build would be nice as you go.
Cheers
Alan

[hillbillybass]

Thanks Martin and Alan.

I also put a post on the Talkbass forum and Matthew has responded with some great advice.

I'll post photos as the build (slowly) progresses. On Friday I'm off on a road trip to a local (i.e. Victoria) sawmiller to check out some wood for the ribs and look at options for the top wood. Also hoping to pick up some willow from another source on the same trip.

Cheers.

Michael

[simso]

Look forward to build photos, they are always good to have

Steve

[DarwinStrings]

Hi Michael, quarter sawn Aussie red cedar can be a bit hard to find but not impossible. It is mostly back sawn as cabinet makers like that cathedral look and it is quite stable so works well cut that way. There is some small millers in northern NSW that sometimes just slab it up and so the middle cut can be quarter saw. Google and the phone might get you some.

[hillbillybass]

Thanks Jim, I'm still thinking about the top wood. Also need to save up a bit more money because on Friday I bought some Ottways Blackwood for the ribs from Curly Pete (thanks Pete) and some English Willow logs for blocks from a Cricket Willow farm, which I spent Saturday cutting up and waxing endgrain.

Plans have arrived this week ( ), so I'm preparing a mold outline for the template.

[hillbillybass]

Still working out the plan for the mold this week. Hope to start cutting the template on the weekend.

[hillbillybass]

Been busy these past few weeks working on my first double bass mold. Anyway, give or take a few small adjustments, it is "finished."

[kiwigeo]

A bit like making a lute.....nearly as much work in the mold as in the actual instrument. Looking forward to watching this build.

[martintaylor]

Looks really interesting build. Pete McCurly of Curly Timbers may be able to guide you with timber choices. Also, Cedarworks in Grafton often get large slabs of Australian Cedar that are quarter sawn. Another species that may be available is Mackay Cedar (I've used it on an acoustic bass) and Boutique Timbers get it fairly regularly. Hope that helps.

[routout]

Nice jigs Mathews Timber in the east not many specialty sellers in Melb ,looks like you have time on your hands so you don't have to be Rushen.

[Kamusur]

Michael, i'd just whack a neck on it now and string up the mold it looks good enough.

Steve

[old_picker]

Brittons timber south dandenong have a huge range of timber - not as easy going as mathews though where you can walk around and pull boards out of the racks. with brittons you tell em what you want and they pull the boards for you. WR Timbers in kilsyth sometimes have some interesting stuff.

[hillbillybass]

Wow! Thanks for the feedback and encouragement fellas, much appreciated. Tempting as it was to put a neck on it and string it up Steve, I already have a pretty nice old plywood bass. Thanks for the suggestions on timber suppliers everyone. Not as much choice here in Melbourne as there is in QLD, NSW or Tasmania, but I'm open to all suggestions and enjoying the journey and learning heaps.

I used to go to Australian Furniture Timbers in Port Melbourne before they closed down. Wish I'd bought up some of their King Billy Pine boards before they closed their doors.

I'm going to use Mountain Ash for the back of this bass, and blackwood (supplied by Curly Pete) for the ribs. I will probably use either Western Red Cedar for the top, or maybe even Monterey Cypress. I'm curious about Monterey Cypress as it is relatively easy to get in Victoria and has been used successfully in guitars.

Australian Red Cedar has proven pretty difficult to find in Melbourne, although I did find some back sawn furniture grade stuff that was too small. If I'm patient, some suitable boards just might turn up, if not for this build then for a future one.

Other woods I've been researching are Kalantis, Mackay Cedar, Monterey Cypress, Queensland Kauri, Celery top Pine, Hoop Pine, Huon Pine, King Billy Pine, California Redwood and Bunya. I'm enjoying improving my timber knowledge.

The main suppliers I've been working with so far are Curly Pete and Matthews Timbers. I know of Brittons in Dandenong South as I bought some blackwood there years ago, but haven't been there recently. A couple of other suppliers I've found recently are A Lewis and Co in Ormond, who are very helpful and stock Western Red Cedar and can get double bass sized boards. I've also been to Hughes Renovator's Paradise in Huntingdale who stock some interesting reclaimed timbers such as Redwood, Kauri pine, Baltic Pine and Tas Oak, etc.

The next move for me is to build a stack of clamps and a bending iron. I went to the tip shop in Wantirna South on Friday and picked up 3 metres of 45mm Tas Oak Dowel for $3 and a Tas Oak DAR board for $2, along with a piece of 50mm Copper Pipe for $5.

Cheers and thanks.

[hillbillybass]

In the past few weeks I've been building clamps and a bending iron from bits and pieces found at the tip shop, steel rod from bunnings, wing nuts and washers from Ferntree Gully Bolts, and stuff I already had. I Bought 3 metres of 45mm dowel form the tip shop for $3 which made most of my clamps. Also a length of copper pipe ($5) and a Tasmanian Oak board ($2) for the bending iron.

The candle powered bending iron is a larger version of one I made a few years ago for bending violin ribs, and which worked brilliantly. I got the idea from a violin making friend of mine, Warren Nolan Fordham. It is probably pretty similar in concept to what the old Bresican makers like Gasparo da Salo and Giovanni Battista Rogeri used. Not counting screws, etc, that I already had, it cost $7 to build.

[blackalex1952]

Mate! Ya got more jigs than an Irish songbook! You may have to up the candlepower to a four burner for thicker larger bass sides!
A better idea would be methylated spirit burners. I have some made with small bottles which have metal screwtops, soldered copper tubes to hold round wicks. The alcohol burns hotter than candles and leaves no carbon residue. My mother used to use them for heating brass wooden handled formers when making artificial silk flowers the traditional way. If you need something stronger still on the cheap, Chinese heating elements and a Chinese PID controller on eBay. I made my own bending iron with a wooden shape which was then used to sand cast aluminium. I drilled 10mm holes in it to install the ceramic elements. I have also made one with stainless steel tube, scrounged of course, and melted aluminium then poured it into the tube. !0mm holes and elements after that. I have even seen a similar thing with two soldering irons pushed into either end of the tube. The aluminuim conducts the heat. You could even try soldering irons and copper pipe. The old Spanish, Mexican and South American luthiers bent sides on a pot belly flue. The further up the flue the cooler the pipe, so the bending heat sweet spot can be found. I look forward to your posts. Make sure you tell us if the candle powered bender works effectively or not.
I have met both Warren (who probably has more tatts than you!) and his mentor Kevin Williams. Williams was an apprentice with a famous English violinmaker who lived in Sydney and used Australian timbers, one of the first to do so. His violas are legendary and fetch high prices.
Cheers!Ross

[hillbillybass]

Thanks for the idea on spirit lamps, Ross. I'll look into that.

It also got me thinking about the small spirit stoves that camping stores sell. Also, I have a huge electric soldering iron that once belonged to my wife's grandfather and came to me - as many things do - because no-one else wanted it. It could be a candidate for a future bending iron build!

Warren is very much a mentor of mine and I am lucky enough (thanks to my lovely wife) to own one of his magnificent violins. I have the 'f' holes of my violin tattooed on my forearms. Warren does indeed have more tatts than me - and we spent plenty of time talking about tattoos - although I was catching up on him until recently, when he got more done.

A few years ago, when I wasn't working and he was at WORCO in Thornbury, and after I'd completed my first violin build, Warren invited me to spend some time with him learning some of the better ways of doing things in violin making. He was very generous and lent me books, etc, and gave me a lot of ideas. He was helping me build a violin until I got a full time job back in education and had to put it aside. I'll get back to it once I complete this double bass!

Warren talked to me about Kevin and I'd love to meet him one day. It was Warren who inspired my interest in Australian timbers.

Cheers,

Michael

[routout]

I saw a piece on Warren the other day went to school with him ,all those years ago .I used a tube of stainless steel with a flame in the end to warm it up yell out if you need stuff,all good fun cheers John.

[hillbillybass]

Thanks John, much appreciated.

The next step is to make a start on carving the neck and scroll. I have a board of Queensland Maple which I'm thinking of laminating together to get the right width. I might even put a 3mm veneer of blackwood through the middle. Should I use hide glue or Titebond for this? If hide glue, then I may wait until the weather (and the shed) is a bit warmer.

Cheers, Michael

[hillbillybass]

Nothing like dressing a nice bit of redgum to get some morning exercise!

[hillbillybass]

Had a bit of shed time this arvo. Cut a neck blank from the Queensland Maple boards I laminated with a redgum centre board during the week. The join turned out olay for a first effort. Room for improvement, but so far so good.

[hillbillybass]

Hi all, it's been a while since I posted as I've been busy running around after family and playing a few gigs on double bass. The double bass build continues slowly and steadily as time and finances permit. Today I've been out in the shed carving my first double bass scroll. So far so good.

[johnparchem]

Thanks for the detailed documentation of your project.

[hillbillybass]

No worries John, I'm enjoying the journey and everything I'm learning along the way. Can't wait until I'm finally playing a bass I've built.