The big difference between amateur and pro luthiers

[Cloverfield]

Okay, here's a question for the folks who have been building for a while. Well, a couple of questions actually. I'm wondering if there was a point in your guitar making careers where things seemed to click and you felt like the instruments you were making had taken the leap from backyard workshop quality to truly professional quality? I guess one of the most obvious differences is getting the finishing done right, this can make a huge difference in the perceived quality of a guitar (IMO). But to me the most outstanding instruments are the ones that you pick up and everything just feels perfect, the neck is so comfortable that it feels like an extension of yourself, the setup is spot on, the controls and machineheads are solid and responsive.

Anyway, did any of you have a moment of - 'now I've nailed this part of guitar making, my guitars have gone to another level' ?

[kiwigeo]

Anyway, did any of you have a moment of - 'now I've nailed this part of guitar making, my guitars have gone to another level' ?

No

[Lex]

Nope still waiting for that feeling

[Cloverfield]

Nope still waiting for that feeling

No

Maybe the nature of the beast is always chasing perfection?

[Allen]

Well, for me it was when Rick Turner looked over several of my ukes and said I needed to triple my prices, and then double that over the next few years.

And if you know anything about Rick, he's not one to piss in your pocket. Nothing like having one of the best in the business tell you that your ready.

[Nick]

Personally I don't ever think I have it cracked, every guitar I build HAS to be better than the last, as soon as I think I've got it perfected is the day my builds stagnate and never improve because I won't be striving to improve. Even pro's never get everything perfect, there's always room for a tiny point of detail to be improved upon. But if you are asking about that transition point from thinking you are just making a guitar built in your back shed to a better quality guitar is when somebody else is willing to hand over their hard earned dollars to own something you've made. I'd never choose that point myself because of my reasoning above but when somebody else likes what you do, it's a turning point, or as Allen stated, when a reputable person endorses your work also.
You should still not stop pursuing that elusive 'as near to perfection as your talent will allow' target though.

[dshaker]

I'm not there yet, but I take my guitars to a cafe that hosts an acoustic guitar performance night about once a month. So far, when I take my guitars, people look at them and play them and say nice things about them and then hand them back. The turning point will be if and when someone says, "Mind if I use this for a song tonight?" and is reluctant to hand it back.

[peter.coombe]

For me it was when Lynn Dudenbostle told me one of my mandolins was as good as or better than any of the top (and top $$$s) American makers. I didn't believe him. Had to visit the USA to find out he was right.

Nothing is ever perfect, especially finishes! However, there has to come a time when you need to say, well I am not 100% happy with the latest instrument, if I do A,B or C and don't do D then it would be better, but it is pretty good and is good enough to put out there. You can't keep improving the product, perfecting it, getting it ready for sale for ever. Wardrobes fill up, you run out of relatives and friends, they get sick of you, and importantly you run out of money. 21 years later I am still never 100% happy with my mandolins or guitars, there are always things to be improved and mistakes still being made, but they are good enough for people to want to buy them. Once you start selling a few, you may find you will change direction a bit because you are now getting better feedback on what customers really want, not what you think they want.

[Allen]

Very good point Peter.

I received some really priceless feedback about neck shape and how frets are dressed on their ends by some top notch ukulele players that really transformed that aspect of my instruments. Totally different to the way you'd approach a guitar.

[demonx]

I think I'll forever be in the hobby mindset and not professional. (As far as the building, not business) That's the way I want it to be. Even though it's a business and deriving income, I don't want to loose the small hobby aspect in my mind, otherwise I might loose the enjoyment! If you turn a hobby to a job then usually the joy is removed from the equation and I see guitar building being something I want to do for enjoyment in retirement. I never planned on it becoming a income this early in my life, it just sort of happened.

As far as perfection/quality, I don't think there will ever be perfection. There is always something, even if it's so tiny and irrelevant that no one will ever see it or even know it's there, but you as the builder know. I own several other brand boutique handmade instruments, electric, acoustic, classical, all have flaws, but I see those as ID marks, differencing them from the other guitars that person made. A human touch. YET, I don't want these "human touches" in my own builds, but there'll always be something.

To me, this is my inspiration to eliminate, evolve and improve, so I'm always striving to be better. Even if a customer says it's the best guitar they've ever played, my mind doesn't go to pat myself on the back, it's already searching for ways to make it better.

I do know of builders who's egos are so inflated that they think their guitars are perfection and they don't see the flaws anymore. It's the ego that will be the wall that stops their improvement.

As far as "moments", I guess when you go to a gig and see your guitars on stage, or when you're down the street and see people wearing your t-shirts, or when you go to a local open stage and the majority of guitarists there play your guitars, or when customers send you videos of them playing your gear. Those moments I'd call "feel good" moments, but they don't tell me I've made it. It just helps remind you it's worth it as its not always an easy road we travel.

Here is the latest video I've been sent, a guitar that was picked up a week or so ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2io84jf0DM

[rocket]

I'm a newcomer compared to some but have had some fairly good reviews on some of my instruments by musicians who know what they're about, but i still approach every build with a considerable amount of caution, make plenty of mistakes and often admire and envy the professionalism/expertise of other more accomplished luthiers.i think i have the ability to build a nice guitar that makes people want to part their with $s but i need more control, consistency of method, sometimes i have to remind myself that this is a hobby and I'm not going to starve if I don't sell 10 instruments a year.
Hadn't clicked for me yet!

Cheers

Rod.

[rocket]

What you said Allen

Rod.

[routout]

That is an interesting question I have heard from an old instrument maker that after hundreds he has not made his best instrument yet ,I just crap at it across the board so I guess that's where I sit.

[matthew]

I would have though that the difference between amateur and pro is simply that if you are able to sell what you make, for a reasonable price, you are a pro.

Being a master luthier is another thing altogether and involves vision, originality, and a certain generosity of spirit.

A friend of mine said to his mentor, when an apprentice in his shop, "aren't you worried that by showing me all your tricks and methods, I will be competition to you?" The master replied "If you find a way to sell what you make ... I'll come and work for you!"

[simso]

I would have though that the difference between amateur and pro is simply that if you are able to sell what you make, for a reasonable price, you are a pro.

That basically sums it up for me as well.

Steve

[kiwigeo]

I would have though that the difference between amateur and pro is simply that if you are able to sell what you make, for a reasonable price, you are a pro.

Agree with that but would add in being professional comes into the equation as well. Ive come across one or two luthiers who are indeed making a buck with their builds but I wouldn't go so far as to say they're very professional in their manner and attitude.

[Strings]

And as usual Martin hits the nail on the head.




with a sledgehammer

[blackalex1952]

Some of these posts have a beautiful humility about them! A true Master understands the strength of humility, and a true musician or instrument maker understands that undefinable magic of a master's work- that undefinable unmeasurable quality that brings the work to life-emotionally. Profesionally speaking? Easy to define. Craftsmanship? Easy. Art? Now that remains in the realm of the human heart. There is a art of living.