Bending wood alternatives...

[viento]

I´m looking for an alternative if my bending binding/purfling/linings with
snakewood doesn´t work like I want it. (splintering... etc)
I found two other quite interesting woods :
Tasmanian blackwood and Koa.

Which of them would be better to bend?.
I use a bending iron with a heating fan.

[J.F. Custom]

Hi Viento.

I'm going to assume you mean bindings, not linings, as that's a fairly exorbitant use of snakewood if not!!

But with respect to Blackwood or Koa, they are so similar in characteristics (genetically also very closely related) that I doubt you will notice a difference in bending, between the two. The only comments would be that clearly, figured material is more difficult to bend than plain. Less water than more usually works better for figured Blackwood. Use of a backing strap or material of some form is recommended, whatever you are trying to bend, to assist against splitting.

But in any case, with practice, they should not present any problems.

Hope that helps.

Jeremy.

[viento]

Hi Jeremy,
thanks for your informations!
Of course I mean bindings...
I have had a tough afternoon today bending the snakewood strips .
I could not avoid two more or less decent splints
in the narrower curves of the waist.
I will try to close those gaps while gluing them into the routed channels and
I hope that Titebond will do what its name says. Winding tapes and rubber strips firmly
around the guitar should help, I guess.

Btw, Koa and its kind of sibling Tasmanian blackwood would be prone to split easily, too...?

[kiwigeo]

Tassie Blackwood bindings aren't too painful to bend. I do mine by hand on an iron. If the bend is a tight radius then make sure the binding is supported with a metal slat. Try using super soft or fabric softener to make bending easier.

The only issue I sometimes have with TBW is a bit of discolouration but a wash with oxalic acid or similar usually gets rid of the staining.

Attached is a current build..a parlour with TBW bindings.

[viento]

Martin, thank you for your detailed infos, especially for the 2 photos!
Blackwood here in Germany is very scarce and ordering it from Australia is a bit complicated
because of the distance and shipping time.
So I just now have ordered a set of koa binding at a wood shop here.
I hope bending that will be a tad easier than snakewood.
I have only made one guitar until now (last year) which had maple bindings, a pleasure to bend.

Btw, do you use a router for adding a light curve on the top edge of the bindings -or is sanding sufficient?

Thanks + have a nice weekend!

Hardy

[kiwigeo]

Btw, do you use a router for adding a light curve on the top edge of the bindings -or is sanding sufficient?

Thanks + have a nice weekend!

Hardy

Hardy,

To put a slight bevel on the outside edge of the binding I use a cabinet scraper....only a few passes are required. If you decide to sand the bevel in then make sure you use a hard sanding block behind the paper.

[56nortondomy]

Here's some Koa binding, it looks very similar to Tas. b/wood. It can still be tricky on tight bends, I wrecked a couple of pieces before I got it right, both on the cutaway. I ended up soaking them in fabric softener. Wayne

[viento]

Wayne, thanks for adding these photos + description!

Just a dummy´s question: What is "fabric softener" ?

Is that the stuff used in laundries or at home in washing machines?

[kiwigeo]

Wayne, thanks for adding these photos + description!

Just a dummy´s question: What is "fabric softener" ?

Is that the stuff used in laundries or at home in washing machines?

All explained here: http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/flattening.htm

[charangohabsburg]

Just a dummy´s question: What is "fabric softener" ?

Is that the stuff used in laundries or at home in washing machines?

Genau. Weichspüler. Funktioniert prima!
Soak the wood in undiluted fabric softener or brush it on repeatedly over 30 or 40 minutes, let dry for at least an hour but preferably not more than half a day, then bend with the bender of your choice. If you try to bend figured wood when wet the risk of fibre separation is bigger. Good luck!

[kiwigeo]

Genau. Weichspüler. Funktioniert prima!

Translation: "Excuse me your donkey has just eaten my passport"

[charangohabsburg]

Genau. Weichspüler. Funktioniert prima!

Translation: "Excuse me your donkey has just eaten my passport"

Exactly. How did you know?

[viento]

I gave up with the snakewood. I bent it but in the waist were some splints coming out.
I will use it another time.
I have received a set of nicely figured muninga bindings yesterday and still am fighting those nasty little splits mainly in the waist curves.
I will pursue my bending tomorrow but if this wood continues being disobedient too I will store it on the shelf and use straight lined maple...

[56nortondomy]

Hardy,try stabalising the splits with ca and just keep bending, that's what I do, dosen't always work, but most of the time they come out ok, just go easy.
Wayne

[viento]

Wayne, thank you, I´ll give it a try

[Trevor Gore]

Sounds like you need more heat. Snakewood bends similar to bloodwood which bends similar to glass. You need to get it hot just short of scorching and then it goes plastic; then the curve sets like glass. Too many cycles and it gets really hard to bend.

Snake neo back.jpg (65.7 KiB) Viewed 25143 times

Blackwood doesn't need as much heat, but only dampen the insides of the curves on the figured stuff and watch for it kinking where the grain is really short through the piece. No softeners were required to bend these:

DSCF3361s.jpg (116.2 KiB) Viewed 25143 times

If you want a real challenge, try bending this stuff for bindings (if you can figure out what it is!)

DSCF6472s.jpg (105.88 KiB) Viewed 25140 times

Here's a closer look:

[viento]

Trevor, thanks for your detailed instructions.
I will try to get a tad more temperature with a gas torch blowing
into the steel tube of the bending iron.
Btw, is the last binding dark snakewood?

Wayne, I tried to bend nicely figured muninga binding this afternoon.
I started with the "U"-shaped florentine cutaway pieces and almost
went mad because they splinted several times on those short pieces.
Superglue helped a lot and I glued in one piece with Titebond just to
see if it´s worth continuing with the other stripes tomorrow.

I´ll tell you...

[J.F. Custom]

If you want a real challenge, try bending this stuff for bindings (if you can figure out what it is!)

Gidgee!!

Jeremy

[56nortondomy]

Stick with it Hardy you'll get there.
Wayne

[viento]

Yeah, I´ve got it
- at least the two first ones. Even the short binding in the cutaway isn´t too bad.
There´s the last tree bindings awaiting for their hot treatments.
One is still taking it´s bath in a mixture of fabric softener and water since yesterday evening.
I have got a spare one if it doesn´t work.

You can take look at them if you want:


here a touch of naphta brings more of the pattern and the yellowish/brown colors of the muninga wood

I still have to sand and then do the pore filling...

[56nortondomy]

Well done Hardy, looking good, a bit of persistence works wonders.
Wayne

[Trevor Gore]

You can take look at them if you want:...

Looking good!

If you want a real challenge, try bending this stuff for bindings (if you can figure out what it is!)

Gidgee!!

Jeremy

How did you know that?

[kiwigeo]

Nice work Viento......beer was invented for tough jobs like this!

[viento]

Thank you all for your help and your sympathy!

[peter.coombe]

Well I reckon most Ebony is harder to bend than Gidgee, although the figured variety of Gidgee would be tricky.