Carbatec Drum Sander

[Crafty Fox]

I bought a new Carbatec 400 mm drum sander a couple of years ago which is the cause of much frustration!
It seems to be a single use machine which at around $900 is a bit pricey: when the paper's done you buy a new machine! The problem is changing the sandpaper; its a total pig of a job. I don't use it often and so the paper which was factory installed lasted a couple of years. However, since I changed it I get roughly (or smoothly?) 10 minutes usage.
When I got more paper from Carbatec a few days ago I mentioned the installation problem and the guy there agreed it was an issue.
I now feel like driving there and slinging the thing through their front window in protest! All 40 odd kg of it; should make a fine mess.
And it'll give my lawyer daughter a bit of interesting legal practice.......if she doesn't disown me!

OK, rant over.....I'm open to practical advice here; anyone experienced/overcome similar problems? Anybody in Perth got one, whom I can visit and get an idea of what I'm doing wrong?
Many thanks

[Richard]

I sold mine 5-6 years ago but I had this unit for a few years and always got good results.

Never had any issues with changing the paper. Are you trying to weave the paper in and out of the cover around the drum? I've heard others in the past vent their frustration doing it this way. The way I always did it was to clip the sandpaper at the left end, hold the paper (unrolled) with my left hand to keep it taught and roll the drum with my right hand... the whole process of changing the sandpaper takes about a minute and gives perfect results.

[kiwigeo]

Ken, Can you put up a pick of the drum without paper installed and any pics of the paper anchoring mechanism would be useful.

Not sure how similar it is to the Performax but there a few little tricks to paper changes on that machine.

[kiwigeo]

Ive just had a look at the manual for this machine and the paper change process is essentially the same as for a Peformax sander such as the one I use.

The procedure I use:

1. facing the drum poke enough of the end of the belt into the slot at right end to engage with the spring clip. Release the clip and check it has grabbed the paper.
2. Slowly and carefully spin the drum and feed the belt onto the drum making sure it doesn't overlap or there isnt too large a gap between adjacent wraps.
Make sure also that the paper is tight on the belt.
3. Poke the left hand end of the belt through the slot while holding the clamp open (Jet supply a little tool to do this). Push the end of the paper into the slot while releasing the clip.
4. Spin the drum by hand and check paper is tight on the drum.
5. Turn the machine on and let it run for a minute or so.
6. Check the paper is still tight on the drum.

[demonx]

Between the two drum sanders I have here, they've both been the cause of much vulgar profanities. I especially hate re threading the large twin drum sander.

Pretty much what the guys above said. Start at he left and work your way across. I buy 100m rolls of the thick canvas paper to save money, but it's still not cheap. I think it works out $30 or something like that every time I re thread the twin drum. The little carbatec one (sounds like what you have) is cheaper.

[Nick]

I'm going to be one of those pricks and say "I've never had a problem with mine." Sorry but I haven't, I employ Martin's instructions when putting on new paper/grit, the trick is putting the right amount under the first (left) clamp, I've had to do a rewind a few times as I've gotten to the right side (the tensioning clamp) only to find I've got too much left over to tension the paper/grit properly. It is a bit of a hit and miss sometimes as to how much you tuck in that left hand clamp but I can do a paper change in usually a minute or less.
Just a thought as to why you are experiencing these problems, perhaps check the clamps against a new unit? They may have been faulty from day one and don't hold and tension the paper/grit effectively enough.

[peter.coombe]

I have the same Carbatec drum sander, now probably 15 yo, and changing sandpaper belts is and always has been an issue. I hate changing the sandpaper! I use the same technique to install a new sandpaper belt, but have shredded a few soon after installation. It has been a source of much frustration and profanities over the years, but once the paper is secured and working properly it gives good results and gets used a lot. The main problem is the sandpaper belt slips in the right side clip. Maybe it is faulty, I dunno. 120 grit is almost impossible to get working properly without slipping, and 80 grit is easier but still sometimes frustratingly problematic and the vulgar profanities flow as a torrent. Some times I have had to give up and start again the next day, usually with a new belt, because my fingers were so sore from setting the right hand clip. Once I have it working properly with no slippage, the belt stays on until it really is totally cactus. A good belt will last for months, depending on what wood goes through the sander. The current belt has been on for around 6 months and just about due for replacement, but I am stringing it out as long as possible.

So, it is a common problem, you are not alone. However, you should get much more than 10mins usage out of each belt. The fact that the original belt lasted so long is an indication that you must be doing something wrong.

[Taffy Evans]

Hi Ken, yep I've experienced the problems you talk of. Two things I did/do is to apply a spot of contact adhesive of the right hand side [this side seems to be the problem side for me] or fold the end of the paper over making it thicker and increasing the holding power of the spring clamp on the R/H side. Not happy tho.
Cheers Taff

[demonx]

This is new paper I put on a couple weeks ago.

A mate of mine told me when he worked at a joinery they used to high pressure wash their paper!

[kiwigeo]

This is new paper I put on a couple weeks ago.

A mate of mine told me when he worked at a joinery they used to high pressure wash their paper!

High pressure washer gun does a fairly good job after soaking the belt overnight in warm soapy water.

[Nick]

Seem to remember Kim put a bit of a tute up about cleaning gummed up grit strips? Came out like brand new if I do remember! I use a crepe dressing stick (Norton brand), makes a bit of a mess with crepe 'globs' all over the show, but cleans the grit nicely.

[kiwigeo]

Seem to remember Kim put a bit of a tute up about cleaning gummed up grit strips? Came out like brand new if I do remember! I use a crepe dressing stick (Norton brand), makes a bit of a mess with crepe 'globs' all over the show, but cleans the grit nicely.

I knew the idea came from somewhere...yeah it was Kim's idea.

[chappy]

I have found with my 16-32" drum sander if you're getting those black burnt strips on the drum that make bad marks on the wood then you are using too fine a grit. As soon as the sander makes a "bumping" noise louder than usual, stop and change down a grit, especially with hardwood. With softwood tops 180 grit is ok, but with hardwood back and sides start at 80 grit, any burn marks then come back to 60 grit.

After using 60 grit the wood can be finished with a scraper to get the required finish.

Just going on past experiences.

Cheers,

Alan

[demonx]

That IS 60 grit.

The gunk up is because it's oily wood going through it. Rosewood is a real PITA. Blackwood isn't far behind it.

Maple seems to clean the paper more than bind it up.

[kiwigeo]

Rosewood is almost guaranteed to gum up your paper. Feed speed and how much is being removed with each pass can sometimes be adjusted to minimize same but eventually youre going to have to change the paper.

[routout]

A very recent frustration ye oldie Drum sander,I have been using just paper backed I cut from a roll of surplus and I taped the ends and trimmed them left to Right is the only way I have found to load it destroyed a few .The most frustrating thing is the spring loaded clip you almost need someone to hold the tension so you can feed the paper tab in .

[Ormsby Guitars]

Gee. You guys are doing something wrong.

I bought my twin sander two years ago. 90 guitars later (we do both sides of the bodies, both sides of the tops, fretboards, etc), and a bunch of extra tops (30?) and we are on only the fifth roll of sandpaper (cloth 60 grit). Lots of ebony, rosewood and Blackwood in those guitars.

Check your dust extraction. Clean the drum regularly. Remove only a small amount per pass. We don't even use paper on the rear drum until the final pass is needed. Replacing the paper shouldn't take more than about five minutes.

[Crafty Fox]

Thanks for all the helpful replies.
I did go out and put on another strip and that held long enough to get the job done. Although I couldn't have had it tight enough because it slipped and overlapped so I had to re-tension it. I cut that last strip about an inch longer and that seemed to help. But that right hand spring clamp is a pain (literally) to get to. It's a shame we can't just lift the drum out of the machine for easier access.
Thanks again!

[kiwigeo]

Thanks for all the helpful replies.
I did go out and put on another strip and that held long enough to get the job done. Although I couldn't have had it tight enough because it slipped and overlapped so I had to re-tension it. I cut that last strip about an inch longer and that seemed to help. But that right hand spring clamp is a pain (literally) to get to. It's a shame we can't just lift the drum out of the machine for easier access.
Thanks again!

Does the Carbatec machine have a little tool like the Jet to hold the clip open while you insert the end of the paper....the tool leaves you with both hands free to f****k with the end of the paper. It wouldn't be hard to make one. I'll flick you a pic and dimensions tomorrow.....it may help.

[dshaker]

My principles:

When you install it, make the paper as tight as you can AND leave a small gap between each pass of the paper as you install it. It's better to have a gap than an overlap. Error in that direction. Clean with a rubber crepe block frequently.

I still hate getting the clips to work properly. I eventually figure out what I was doing wrong (but then I forget what ever it was by the next time I need to do it).

[Nick]

Does the Carbatec machine have a little tool like the Jet to hold the clip open while you insert the end of the paper....the tool leaves you with both hands free to f****k with the end of the paper. It wouldn't be hard to make one. I'll flick you a pic and dimensions tomorrow.....it may help.

No they didn't provide a tool to do the job, it's just a matter of shoving your digits into a small area (the expression, "fingers like pigs tits" comes to mind here!)
So pictures and a few measurements would be very useful!
Getting the tension correct on that right clip can be a little tricky and usually means more than one go at re-seating the paper.

[Steve]

Have you guys got a spring-loaded pin on yours? Not as good as two free hands, but it gives you a bit more room and control to slide the paper in.

[kiwigeo]

Pics of the hook device that comes with the Jet Performax Drum Sanders.

Hook is used to pull up and open the clamping mechanism.

The hook is twisted around so it rests on the drum and holds the clamping mechanism open.

With the clamp held open I pull the end of the sand paper through to ensure it's taught. The tool is then twisted and the clamp released and closed on the sand paper....while still holding the end of the sandpaper tight.

[Crafty Fox]

Thanks for the very helpful photos, I'll try to knock up some type of holding tool. I did try to jamb a screwdriver (that's what they're for isn't it?) and also a small clamp in at various times with limited success.
Cheers.

[Nick]

I did try to jamb a screwdriver (that's what they're for isn't it?).

Haven't you got a six inch rule Ken?

Thanks for the pics Martin, as you say, it's a remarkably simple tool, makes you wonder why the Carbatec version didn't have something similar, must only cost a dollar (if that) to include one.
*Runs enthusiastically to the steel rack*