Pore filler for nitrocellulose finish

[Quinny]

Hi,

I'm having trouble researching a pore filler that is clear, available in Australia and ok with a nitrocellulose finish. Anyone got any recommendations of products or suppliers? Preferably in Aust but eVen if they are overseas. Thanks

Andrew

[J.F. Custom]

Epoxy is one option.

There have been various discussions on this subject on here previously. Give the search option a good workout.

But straight off, here is a great video tutorial Allan did on epoxy filling a while back -

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2872

Jeremy.

[ozwood]

Hi Andrew,

I have been using http://www.lmii.com/products/finishing/ ... ear-filler, Works really well , with one rule , I apply a light (thinned 50%) coat of sealer first , if you don't it can dull the grain, particularly the end grain of the heel ( don't ask how I know) I apply with a thin spreader working across the grain , leave overnight, then sand with 360, for deep pores this may require a second application, I always use a couple of coats of sealer over the Top before applying the gloss, just because I can sand within a few hours without it balling up, but if you wanted to spray straight over the top I don't think you would have any dramas, if you don't have sealer , thinned nitro would work, but would need to be left longer before sanding.

I have been using it for about 12 months, have done 6 Guitars with no issues.

Not as good as Epoxy, but does not have the hazards or possibility of disaster either.

Cheers,

[Quinny]

Thanks Paul. I had seen that product but didn't know what to make of it. It's good to have your experience and recommendation.

Just to check: as this product is water based I am using a nitrocellulose lacquer. Do you know if this is ok as the product info doesn't seem to say either way.
Andrew

[Allen]

I use Bote Cote epoxy now. Made in Australia and very easy to use. Much better than the WEST Systems that I had used previously in the video mentioned. I get mine at a local refinishing shop that carries stuff from home, boat and automotive. I'm sure that you can get it almost anywhere similar. They do have a website and will ship to you as well.

The hardener has an amber cast to it, but even on the curly maple I've used it on there is not tint to finish. Just makes the grain pop and fills the pores.

And yes, it's suitable under lacquer. It's what is used on all my instruments.

[Jeremy D]

I tried Z-poxy first and it sunk back in the pores after about a year. I switched to boatcote and it came out fantastic and still looks great after a year and a half. Sands easier than Z-poxy too.

[demonx]

I tried Z-poxy first and it sunk back in the pores after about a year. I switched to boatcote and it came out fantastic and still looks great after a year and a half. Sands easier than Z-poxy too.

I'd be very interested to see a long term comparison on the z-poxy V's boat cote. (Although your year/year and a half comparison may cover that)

I was using west systems but swapped to z-poxy last year. The z-poxy is WAY more user friendly. Dries over night as opposed to waiting several days. Sands much easier than the west systems. Mixes 1:1 eliminating the pumps.

I'm yet to use boat cote as I was happy with the z-poxy transition.

[Quinny]

Thanks Allen and Jeremy. Bote Cote sounds worth checking out. I might even do a test piece between it and Acqu Coat. All part of the fun!

Andrew

[Allen]

Bote Cote has a 2:1 mixing ratio by volume. I use my digital scales as I only ever make up 10gms of resin at a time and you just can't get accurate volumes at that ratio. So I asked the chemist at Bote Coat and he told me it's 10gm or resin to 4.4gm of catalyst.

[56nortondomy]

I use bote coat, and use syringes to get the amounts, there pretty accurate. Haven't had any problems at all.
Wayne

[Quinny]

A syringe is a great idea Wayne

[Jeremy D]

I tried Z-poxy first and it sunk back in the pores after about a year. I switched to boatcote and it came out fantastic and still looks great after a year and a half. Sands easier than Z-poxy too.

I'd be very interested to see a long term comparison on the z-poxy V's boat cote. (Although your year/year and a half comparison may cover that)

I was using west systems but swapped to z-poxy last year. The z-poxy is WAY more user friendly. Dries over night as opposed to waiting several days. Sands much easier than the west systems. Mixes 1:1 eliminating the pumps.

I'm yet to use boat cote as I was happy with the z-poxy transition.

I think others have had the same problem with z-poxy. There were some posts on the OLF that suggested that it was specifically an incompatibility with mirotone lacquer. The results that were posted there were very similar to what happened to me. Initially the pores started to sink, then over time there were patches of finish that went really kind of rough almost like it had bubbled up a bit. I know there have been many 100's of guitars built using zpoxy without issue though.

These issues aside I believe boatcote to be a far superior product. Application and sanding is much easier.

[Jeremy D]

I use bote coat, and use syringes to get the amounts, there pretty accurate. Haven't had any problems at all.
Wayne

Me too I just buy a bag of them from the chemist.

[demonx]

I think others have had the same problem with z-poxy. There were some posts on the OLF that suggested that it was specifically an incompatibility with mirotone lacquer. The results that were posted there were very similar to what happened to me. Initially the pores started to sink, then over time there were patches of finish that went really kind of rough almost like it had bubbled up a bit. I know there have been many 100's of guitars built using zpoxy without issue though.

These issues aside I believe boatcote to be a far superior product. Application and sanding is much easier.

I'm not on OLF, I found out about Z-poxy on this forum and trialled it based on people recommending it over west systems.

I'm yet to have any issue with it, however if you guys think the boat cote is better and here I am thinking the Z-poxy is the bees knees, then I guess once my current batch and the backup batch I just ordered of z-poxy runs out, looks like I must try the boat cote.

How is the boat cote for cold casting and normal Inlay work? How does it go with liquid pigments and things like that? What is the cure time? Is it sand able overnight like z-poxy or does it need several days like west systems?

[Allen]

It's overnight dry with the tropical hardener for me. Never gummy like WEST Systems. Never any amine blush.

I've added various tinters both powder and liquid to it for inlay work to good effect.

[kiwigeo]

I use bote coat, and use syringes to get the amounts, there pretty accurate. Haven't had any problems at all.
Wayne

Me too I just buy a bag of them from the chemist.

I do that too but the staff are convinced Im a raving druggie.....

[Hank]

Hey Guys

Re the Bote Cote, Can you thin the mix with Mirotone Nitro Thinners or do you have to use Bote Cote reducer?


Cheers
Frank

[Allen]

I only use their thinner, and never tried anything else in it.

[Hank]

thanks Allen

[Strings]

i think this part of their introductory statement sold me

" Our Bote-Cote epoxy resin system even includes an insect repellant to reduce the nuisance of insects swimming in your coating before it dries. "

[Quinny]

Since starting this post. I am ready to use Botecote on my concert uke - back, top and sides are Koa and the neck is Aussie Blackwood. Finish is nitrocellulose. I would appreciate some advice before I start.

1) Do indeed to use a sealer. Im thinking that as its epoxy maybe not.
2) Do you Sandit back to the wood so only the pores are filled, or can you leave a thin layer of epoxy over the top as long as I sand it fine.

Thanks

Andrew

[Jeremy D]

These video's by Todd Stock and Allen McFarlen helped me greatly with my first epoxy pore fill.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYHxMg7n9cI There are three parts to this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvS98dojNVs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clw3xIPVXbM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aif7PcESRGo

Since starting this post. I am ready to use Botecote on my concert uke - back, top and sides are Koa and the neck is Aussie Blackwood. Finish is nitrocellulose. I would appreciate some advice before I start.

1) Do indeed to use a sealer. Im thinking that as its epoxy maybe not.
2) Do you Sandit back to the wood so only the pores are filled, or can you leave a thin layer of epoxy over the top as long as I sand it fine.

Thanks

Andrew

[Allen]

You don't need a sealer.

I never leave any epoxy on the surface. Only in the pores.

[kiwigeo]

You don't need a sealer.

I never leave any epoxy on the surface. Only in the pores.

The above is the less time consuming option. Succeeding with the alternative (a smooth defect free coat of resin) is a combination of skill and from my experience...just plain luck. After days trying to get a nice smooth coat of resin I sat down and thought to myself....the aim of the exercise is to fill the PORES. Applying the resin and then sanding back achieves this so this is what I ended up doing.

[Quinny]

Thanks Allen, Jeremy and Martin. From all your comments its pretty clear I don't need a sealer, but need to sand back to the wood. I can see how leaving a thin payer of epoxy would be a combo of skill and luck and risky for a newby.

Thanks guys - very helpful.

Andrew