Stew Mac & Water based finishes

[peter.coombe]

Stew Mac seem to be phasing out all their water based finishing products. They have been my only source of Target Coatings EM2000 since Target stopped shipping international so this is a BIG problem for me. Any one know what is going on? Effectively that means they can't offer any finishing products for any of their international customers outside of North America. I know most of you use locally sourced solvent based products, but there is no way I would use a solvent based lacquer on my mandolins. There is a marketing premium on varnish for mandolins. I have tried a locally available alkyd resin based varnish but although it passed the flexibility and hardness test, it clogs sandpaper and so is a nightmare to sand. What to do? AAAAHHHHHGGGG!!! plus many other words that would get censored.

I have fired emails off to Target Coatings and Stew Mac and am awaiting their replies.

[Crafty Fox]

Would it be possible to use an intermediary in the US to post you the Target products? I was only talking about this with someone last week. There's a company called 'Bongo' (and I'm sure there will be others) who will act as your US 'address'. I haven't looked into it myself yet so can't comment on their efficiency or costs.

[kiwigeo]

Would it be possible to use an intermediary in the US to post you the Target products? I was only talking about this with someone last week. There's a company called 'Bongo' (and I'm sure there will be others) who will act as your US 'address'. I haven't looked into it myself yet so can't comment on their efficiency or costs.

Aussie Post have recently started a forwarding service.....not sure how good it would be considering Im still waiting for acknowledgement of receipt of a registered item I posted via Aussie Post to Tasmania 2 weeks ago.

[dshaker]

How about KTM-9 from Luthiers' Merchantile?

[Allen]

As Martin mentioned. No idea if they would have a problem forwarding on a coating, but if it went by air previously, I can't see an issue. It's going to work out more expensive than previously I would think, but an option.

Here is a link to the CNET article I saw about it.

http://www.cnet.com/au/news/online-shop ... australia/

And Austpost's website for the service.

http://shopmate.auspost.com.au

[peter.coombe]

Thanks, I was reading about the Aussie Post service yesterday, it is definitely worth investigating.

This is the reply I got from Stew Mac

"Thank you for contacting us. I'm sorry, we are no longer offering Target finish. However, we are currently testing waterbase finishes that will be available hopefully within a few months. The waterbase finishes that we will be offering will be better than the Target finish. Better in clarity and they will be closer to traditional lacquers and how they behave. I'm sorry we cannot currently offer what we were able to in the past, but we will have replacements soon. Thank you for your patience and I'm sorry for any inconvenience."

I am not at all surprised that the finish they are testing is better than Target's EM7000 that they used to sell (it has a noticeable blue tinge), but I am still in the dark as to whether they will be offering an equivalent brushing varnish to EM2000. No reply from Target Coatings. They seem to have abandoned their international customers.

[peter.coombe]

Ok, well I have signed up for Aussie Post Shopmate service. Problem now is Target Coatings on line web site won't accept a non North America address for the credit card billing address. So that did not work. I sent an email off to Target Coatings asking they fix this, but I am not holding my breath. They have proven to be quite unhelpful to a cranky Australian in the past. So still stuffed.

[peter.coombe]

How about KTM-9 from Luthiers' Merchantile?

KTM9 is not a varnish. There have also been reports of problems with sweat damage. KTM SV is sort of similar to EM2000, but it is much more difficult to apply by brush and does not buff up as nicely as EM2000 with Micromesh. I tried it on scrap wood and decided not to use it.

[soulman]

Hi Peter

A friend of mine told me about www.shipito.com. I haven't used them. Might be worth a look.

Cheers

Ross

[Mark McLean]

I have used shipito.com
It is a good service and easy to use. It is particularly useful if you are buying multiple items from different suppliers as they can consolidate multiple packages into one before shipping it out of the US. Saves a lot on postage.

[peter.coombe]

Thanks, that looks more promising.

Final word from Stew Mac

"I don't believe we will be offering a brushing version for the replacement waterbase lacquer. I'm very sorry for any inconvenience."

"inconvenience" is a bit of an understatement from my point of view.

Peter

[simonb15]

On this topic, I'm left at a bit of a loss for what to do now that stewmac don't have any water based finishes available, so I'm wondering what others are doing. I see KTM-9 from LMI as an option, but as above reviews are a little hit and miss. I also note Mirotone 3220 is a popular choice, but I'm not set up for spraying hazardous/flammable solvents (plus all of my tints and pigments are for water based products). As a garage builder, I'm thinking a new source of water based lacquer is my only real option here (staying away from poly for now). Has anyone tried Mirotone's water based products? Any other Australian suppliers you might recommend?

Cheers,
Simon

[peter.coombe]

I have just found that fishpond.com.au have Enduro-var listed on their web site and I have ordered a quart to try it out. Could be a long wait since it comes from the US, but hopefully it will arrive in the post eventually. Enduro-var is similar to EM2000 and KTM SV. It is an alkyd/Urethane oil varnish in a water emulsion so it does not have the blue haze of acrylic varnishes. It can be sprayed or brushed. I have the fingers crossed hoping it will brush better than KTM SV. There has been a good write up on the mandolincafe on this product, so it is one possibility that you can order locally.

Peter

[peter.coombe]

Well the Enduro-var arrived and it is the best alternatlve I have found so far. However, I still prefer Target Coatings EM2000, it levels and buffs better, so have been battling with shipito.com. I say battling because it is anything but user friendly. You need to type in the URL of the product manually, so the possibilities of errors in a long URL are endless. Corrections send by email are not accepted by shipito. So far I have 2 cancelled (by shipito) attempts, first was a typo in the URL, second was I did not specify the quantity although the quantity is bleedin obvious from the entered price. Groan! Not recommended unless desperate, and I am desperate.

[Jehu]

Hi Peter,

Do you foresee any problems with using the Enduro-Var over the stains used by Nick in his helpful tutorial (viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5392) -- aside from an additional amber tint to take into account?

I am planning to try his hand-rubbed sunburst, but am in the market for a brush-on top coat, and I see that Enduro-Var is available through the NZ fishpond site.

Thanks,
Jay

[peter.coombe]

No, so long as you seal the stain before applying the Enduro-var, particularly if you use water soluble stains. Despite what they say on the web site, you can use shellac under Enduro-var, so long as it is dewaxed shellac. Worked for me, and has worked for others. If you brush on the Enduro-var, thin it with some water and it flows off the brush quite nicely.

Peter

[Jehu]

Thanks, this is sounding promising. Do you have experience using shellac on stains like these? I had asked Nick about a shellac finish over the stain, and here was his reply:

Just wondering what effect the alcohol from the shellac would do to the stain (as somebody mentioned/questioned in my tutorial)? The stain mixes with ALL mediums so I imagine the alcohol would bleed into the stain and re activate it. Don't quote me on that as I've never done a Shellac over stain, if you are familiar with shellac then maybe, when you get the stains, you could do a small test on some scrap?

[peter.coombe]

I have not used those particular stains. The alcohol would reactivate the stain, but should only be the first coat. If you spray the first coat and don't get it too wet should be ok. Not sure about brushing, you will need to try it first on scrap. Do that any way. I use water soluble analine dyes on Maple. These are activated by the water in the alcohol, but I still can brush on shellac without any problems.

[Jehu]

Okay, I already have the dyes and and shellac, so I will give it a go on some scrap before investing in the Enduro-var. I'm trying to sort out a way of getting a clear coat over that hand-rubbed sunburst without spray equipment, which is proving to be a challenge!

[peter.coombe]

Finally a can of EM2000 arrived on Wednesday. shipito.com has delivered the goods. Phew! Back in business vanishing the next guitar to get ready for Port Fairy today.

Peter

[Jehu]

Hi Peter,

I tracked down some Enduro-var and am going to give it a try. When you brush it on, how many coats do you typically go to?

Thanks again,
Jay

[peter.coombe]

With EM2000 I brush on 5 coats with a light sanding between coats to remove any nits, then sand flat with P400. After that I brush on what ever is needed to get a good finish, usually 3 or 4 coats. I used the same on a scrap piece of wood with the Enduro-var and it seemed to work fine.

Peter

[Jehu]

Thanks, Peter!