Build thread for first Gore SS from the plans in the book.

[ernie]

Glad it worked john, started my vinegar solution in a spice jar 3 days ago . the steel wool solution is sitting on the front step.

[ernie]

FWIW. I just finished staining the walnut with the vinegar soloution.It looks vy similiar to yours john. and trev/s I matched it up with the black dyed NGR stain On another walnut bridge .The ngr stain.has a more intense black/dark look to it .The vinegar solution came out more "natural " looking like it was always that dark/greyish colour. I/m sure one could make the vinegar dyed walnut grain "pop" by using a couple of coats of boiled linseed oil and then buffing it out.

[johnparchem]

I was surprised how simple it was to make an ebonizing solution. I did nothing with nails or rust. A clean new 0000 steel wool pad a guart of vinegar and a few days wait.

Here is a sequence of photos making a carbon fiber reinforced bridge for the falcate brace guitar out of walnut. Unlike an x-braced guitar the falcate bracing pattern does not have a cross brace across the center of the top in the lower bout so the bridge is used to provide a stiff brace. You will see in the pictures that I laminated carbon fiber in a walnut bridge blank. Walnut was use to as a bridge made with walnut is substantially lighter than an ebony or a rosewood bridge.

I also used a vinegar\steel wool solution to ebonize the walnut to give it an ebony look. That process is like magic and worked amazingly well.

I may make another bridge as I sanded it to the carbon fiber when putting on a 16" radius. It is not super noticeable as it is black on black after I ebonized the walnut. But doing the first is part of learning.









I cut out the shape on a band saw very close and just sanded to the final shape using the template as my guide. I have gotten to where I hate to shape on a router.





I shaped the wings with my luthiers friend in its drum sanding mode.



So far so good.


Here is where things went wrong I sanded a little deep when sanding the 16" radius on the bridge and expose some fiber on the top of the bridge



You can see the fiber. Next time I will have the top veneer a little thicker. Note the weight right around 22 grams with more sanding to go.


I used a brush to apply the the vinegar with dissolved steel wool. This pictures is the length of time to get my camera later.


You can see it is not a bad match for ebony. The ebony bridge in the picture weighs 35 grams.

[johnparchem]

I was surprised how simple it was to make an ebonizing solution. I did nothing with nails or rust. A clean new 0000 steel wool pad a quart of vinegar and a few days wait.

Here is a sequence of photos making a carbon fiber reinforced bridge for the falcate brace guitar out of walnut. Unlike an x-braced guitar the falcate bracing pattern does not have a cross brace across the center of the top in the lower bout so the bridge is used to provide a stiff brace. You will see in the pictures that I laminated carbon fiber in a walnut bridge blank. Walnut was use to as a bridge made with walnut is substantially lighter than an ebony or a rosewood bridge.

I also used a vinegar\steel wool solution to ebonize the walnut to give it an ebony look. That process is like magic and worked amazingly well.

I may make another bridge as I sanded it to the carbon fiber when putting on a 16" radius. It is not super noticeable as it is black on black after I ebonized the walnut. But doing the first is part of learning.









I cut out the shape on a band saw very close and just sanded to the final shape using the template as my guide. I have gotten to where I hate to shape on a router.





I shaped the wings with my luthiers friend in its drum sanding mode.



So far so good.


Here is where things went wrong I sanded a little deep when sanding the 16" radius on the bridge and expose some fiber on the top of the bridge



You can see the fiber. Next time I will have the top veneer a little thicker. Note the weight right around 22 grams with more sanding to go.


I used a brush to apply the the vinegar with dissolved steel wool. This pictures is the length of time to get my camera later.


You can see it is not a bad match for ebony. The ebony bridge in the picture weighs 35 grams.

[ernie]

vy good looking bridge john . Are you going to put any finish on bridge?. I did the CF layups for the bridge in my wood vice saves time .I also ebonized some local cherry for future uke bridges I have been using walnut , but might switch to cherry.So far your instrument is lookin good. I got my latest issue of the GAL .in which J. greven discusses his methods for a quick an easy or so it seems, waterborne finish. I/ve been using a behlens rockhard varnish , which IMHO gives a more ole timey antique look to my ukes , cheers ernie

[johnparchem]

Ernie, I like to use refined linseed oil, from an art supply place for my SS bridges. It is the same stuff they but on canvas before painting. I just wipe a little on. I got the new GAL issue, a great issue. Greven's article was one of the best in a long time, and the issue had part 1 of a Trevor Gore article.

Into my second day of spraying Target coatings EM6000 water base lacquer. The pore fill was zpoxy. The picture are with 7 coats on the back and sides and four on the top. My plan is to level the back and sides at 8 coats and the top at 6 coats. After that I will spray 6 more coats on the back and sides. Check for any problems fix and level if necessary and finish with 2 more coats on the back sides and top. That will be a total of 16 for the back and sides and 8 for the top. I am spraying 3 mill wet coats, I use a mill gauge to check the guns setting each before I spray the guitar.

I decided to french polish the neck. No real reason other than I thought it would be fun.

[ernie]

Nice one john . I was french polishing vln necks 20 plus years ago except we never called it FP lol. I definitely like the FP look on a CL gtr top.It gives it an old world flavour of sorts,as opposed to some of the new high tech finishes which can look like the instrument has been embalmed in plastique.. I use 3 different kinds of filler and frankly find that each one gives a different look.I was using famowood water base , filla water base , and today i used behlens.oil base I prefer ,like john G. to use a shellac sealer over the epoxy .I/m using system 3 on necks. But I/ve been finishing with behlens rockhard varnish, I like the added golden/amber tone that it imparts.I will switch to something similiar the General water base finishes. That some are using on another luthier forum discussion. I/m reluctant to use FP on gtr /uke necks because of heavy wear. I think FP looks better on closed pored woods like maple /cherry.I/m getting my shellacs from a fellow called malcolm down in s. oregon. My observation is that oil base filler seems to work better with small open pored woods, and that the water base works better on woods with larger open pores, ash/oak . My problem with the water base is that it dries vy fast an leaves a lot of filler in the pores which needs a lot of sanding. The oil base is IMHO more user freindly and one has more control but takes a long time abt 3 days to dry.

[ernie]

Forgot to ask john I/ve seen the linseed oil in art supply stores here. I/b been using the boiled linseed oil from h. depot/lowes /etc for 36 years.I know the hdware variety has additives /thinners .Is there any advantage to using the refined linseed oil for instance for FP?? . I/ve used boiled linseed, mineral oil, lemon oil, kerosene oil, etc for FP. thanks ernie. PS.Keep posting those photos. Since your gtr spruce it may take awhile to open up . My falcate cedar top is getting progressively better.I bought a giannini spruce Cl gtr off CL abt 1 month ago .It was 40 yrs old and hardly played.It/s starting to open up and sing.

[charangohabsburg]

You can see the fiber. Next time I will have the top veneer a little thicker. Note the weight right around 22 grams with more sanding to go.

Exposed carbon fiber looks like hightech and calls for a higher number on the price tag!

[johnparchem]

You can see the fiber. Next time I will have the top veneer a little thicker. Note the weight right around 22 grams with more sanding to go.

Exposed carbon fiber looks like hightech and calls for a higher number on the price tag!

I am starting to get use to it and you are right I I do not want to hide all of the high tech carbon. Looks wise it passes the 4 foot test. Price wise this one is for me.

[johnparchem]

I am still a few days away from being able to do a final sanding and buffing of this guitar. I am really getting impatient so I roughed out a nut, checked that my geometry is still correct. I was really pleased how the Em6000 sprayed on. I had each coat around 3 to 4 mill wet. I leveled the top at 6 coats and the back and sides at eight coats and went over the guitar and drop filled any voids I could find around the bindings or rosette. No matter how much time I think I have spent finding them before spraying I always seem to find a few when I have 4-8 coats on the guitar.

I sprayed 6 more coats on the back and sides and lightly sanded away any nubs, at this point the finish was very level and with 3 mill wet coats there are no drips or sags. Em6000 also levels nicely at that thickness.

I followed with 2 more final coats on the entire body for a total of 16 on the back and sides and 8 on the top.

[johnparchem]

I have the bridge glued on so I bolted on the neck and took a spectrum sample. The helmholtz and the top amazingly came out at 95 and 180, The back is down about a semitone from where I hoped at 215 Hz. I can put some spruce into the brace scallop to raise it a bit. But I will wait until after the back is sanded and buffed. Other than that I am not sure what I can learn from the chart. The tap sound is good and the chart seems to show a bunch of peaks that can make a voice.

[johnparchem]

It is a guitar now. I still have some set up work to do. But I like to wait a couple of days to dial it in. I will get a video up but wow it is loud, wonderful sounding treble strings right to the highest note, deep base. Pretty even tone across the strings. This is the first time stringing the guitar. The saddle and nut are close enough that the guitar is playable. I will do a real setup later in the week.

For those that have not followed ...

Lutz Spruce top
Australian Blackwood Back
Hawaiian Koa Sides
Cocobolo bindings and headstock veneer
Claro Walnut rossette
Walnut bridge ebonized with vinegar\Steel wool solution
Ebony Fretboard
Carbon Fiber reinforced falcate bracing
Built to have a live back.
Body Finished with Zpoxy pore fill, shellac wash coat, and EM6000.
Neck was French Polished

[Trevor Gore]

Looks great, John!

Try a tap spectrum with the guitar strung. Usually the mass of the saddle, pins and strings bring things down a bit. Adding a bit of side mass might then get you close to 170Hz for the top, with the other resonances not moving very much. You'll then have the 4 semitone separation and you can see which sound you prefer.

[johnparchem]

Thanks Trevor,

I did a tap spectrum all strung up and I ended up with 92, 172, 214. The guitar is really starting to sound good as I get it set up properly. It is very responsive light strings. All of the notes ring clear. All and all I am very excited.

[Trevor Gore]

Sounds like you've got a good'n, John!

Well done!

[johnparchem]

Thanks Trevor

Well I tried to get a good recording, I was hampered by the fact that I can not play very well. As bad as my recording was Youtube or my publishing software still compresses it. At some point I will get a real player and post a less compressed version on sound cloud or have a download from my web site. I will have it at the GAL.

But for what it is worth here is my playing with some upfront commentary.



youtu.be/


You can also hear my classical instructor, but it was recorded on my phone ... He really like the guitar and played it my entire lesson. It was fun to hear what it could really sound like.


youtu.be/

[pat foster]

I saw this guitar at the GAL convention and was impressed. Great job, John.

Pat

[johnparchem]

Thank you Pat,

I enjoyed meeting you and I really appreciated the opportunity use your table for a day. I had a steady steam of people who heard the instrument in the listening session very interested in falcate bracing.

Even Charles Fox acknowledged in his auditorium talk that after starting to read the book that Trevor Gore might be on to something.

I have the design book out again and I am working out a falcate bracing pattern for a 14 fret 00 that a friend asked me to build.

[kiwigeo]

A great thread John...thanks for documenting your build.

[pat foster]

Thank you Pat,

I enjoyed meeting you and I really appreciated the opportunity use your table for a day. I had a steady steam of people who heard the instrument in the listening session very interested in falcate bracing.

Even Charles Fox acknowledged in his auditorium talk that after starting to read the book that Trevor Gore might be on to something.

I have the design book out again and I am working out a falcate bracing pattern for a 14 fret 00 that a friend asked me to build.

John,

It was good to meet you too. Maybe we'll get a chance to talk again at the next conference.

It was a good thing showing your guitar at the convention. It needed to be seen and heard.

Nice documentation on your build!

Pat

[Dave M]

John that stream of information was fantastic. I have been building a classical, also following the Gore/Gilet book and have been documenting with photos and notes, really for my own benefit though may put some up here, and I am aware how much extra effort is needed - Find the camera, adjust the lighting, move the kit around to get the view, stumble over the offcuts as you try to get the right angle, then adjust the image size so it can be uploaded etc...

So thanks a lot for the work you've done.

It also looks great as a guitar and from your initial recordings sounds really good. I would be very interested to hear a clear recording of a good player so look forward to it if you can organise that.

Cheers Dave

[johnparchem]

Thanks Dave,

I do plan to get a good recording done with a real player. I would be interested in what you learn with your falcate classical as I plan to build one as my next project after I finish another steel string and a couple of ukuleles I am working on.

[johnparchem]

Made a recording playing a duet of a Pink Floyd folk song with this guitar. Sorry about the singing.


youtu.be/

[Duct Tape]

This is a reply to a very old thread I found via search. My apologies to the admin and forum if it exceeds reasonable time limits.

John, I thoroughly enjoyed your thread, since I am beginning down the same path. Your pics, explanations and creativity were excellent. Even the occ whoops we all “enjoy”. Thanks for posting.

A question about the bridge. I have the Book at home and have just started reading the build volume and will then tackle the design one. Was the use of ebonized walnut rather than ebony mainly for a lighter bridge?

Thanks again John (and Trevor),

Jon