Build log - Two sets of strings on a lap slide

[Bob Connor]

This instrument was born out of my frustration at trying to get more than the one relative minor chord out of a Weissenborn. At best you can get a partial couple of notes or something that implies the minor chord.

Generally if you tune the instrument to "D" you can get a half decent "Bm" out of it but not much else. That's fine for playing blues and roots music but I'm trying to get a bit more flexibility out of the instrument.

I've tried tuning to a minor and it sounds great. If you have a lap slide drop the F# down a semitone and have a crack at "Black Magic Woman" or I Put a Spell On You" and you'll see where I'm coming from.

Both Dave White and Paddy Burgin have built double neck lap slides but I've decided to go with a single wide neck with a single fingerboard to accommodate the two sets of strings. One set for a major chord the other for a minor chord.

I think it's a lot less complex and given the dwindling strength and dexterity in my fingers I thought this would be a much easier option.

I've named this beast a WeissenBob.

I'll put pics up as I get through the construction of it as well as dimensions in case someone else want's to have a go at one.

This is the first lap slide that I'm going to use something close to the bracing that the available plans advocate. ie 10mm wide. I've always thought they looked overbuilt but with close to 300 pounds per square inch on this top I think it'll need it.

The top is Euro Spruce and I've left that at 3.2mm guessing that it'll be closer to 3mm by the time it's sanded. Back and sides are going to be Blackwood with the sides at 95mm and a constant depth. So it's a bit deeper than a standard Weiss with no thinning at the tail and neck.

The body shape is different from a typical Weiss with a larger lower bout (40cm) and the waist in a different spot. I created the shape using a Java applet that I found a few years ago

The sides are my usual laminated construction with the inner laminate at 1mm thick and the outer laminate at 1.5mm. to allow for some sanding.

Here's a few pics of where I'm at with it.

Glueing the side laminates together

Euro Spruce top @ 3.2mm

[ozziebluesman]

Looking forward to this build Bob.

Great idea and concept!

The Indian instrument called a Mohan Veena that Harry Manx plays is something similar but I think it is more of an Archtop designed body and a solid neck too! The instrument has a unique Indian sound but it is not one bit versatile either.

I do a version of Hendrix "Little Wing" in a minor tuning dropping the F# to an F on the weissenborn. This tuning woks well as you have a 5th chord is in the three bass strings along with a minor on the top three strings. As you stated open D will give you buggar all in a minor chord.

I will be watching with interest.

Cheers

Al

[charangohabsburg]

[...] I've decided to go with a single wide neck with a single fingerboard to accommodate the two sets of strings. One set for a major chord the other for a minor chord.

I think it's a lot less complex and given the dwindling strength and dexterity in my fingers I thought this would be a much easier option.

I have never played a lap slide guitar, but I think that this may turn out as a real musician-tool developement, maybe much more important than fiddling a bit (or even much) around with sound quality and loudness improvement.

I've named this beast a WeissenBob.

May building WeissenBob guitars turn into a centuries long lasting tradition!

[kiwigeo]

Two headed monster!!!!

images.jpg (9.28 KiB) Viewed 26414 times

[Nick]

Watching with interest Bob.

[kiwigeo]

Chewing food with your mouth open...so crass

[Bob Connor]

Tops done. I'm just voicing it now. It actually has a bit of sustain to it already so I'm loathe to take too much more off the braces given that the total string tension on this top will be around 320 pounds per square inch (2 sets of medium gauge strings with an .018 and an .015 for the top 2 strings)

The braces are all 10mm x 10mm with the exception of the first upper transverse brace which is 15mm x 10mm. I've taken all specs from Gwenn Lainné's plans

Christmas tree bridge plate is 2.4mm thick and the lower bout braces will be tucked into the linings.

Here's what the bracing looks like plus a few other progress shots.

Regards

[John Maddison]

Looking forward to seeing this double stringer develop, Bob. Inspirational build.

[Taffy Evans]

Nice one bob, looks like a good project to watch with interest.

[Bob Connor]

Got the bridge made and glued the top on today.

Next problem is how do I clamp the bridge on if there's no soundhole. I'm considering glueing the bridge before the back goes on by placing a block of wood under where the bridge sits and using the go-bar deck.

Regards

[DarwinStrings]

I can just see you playing that in a pub and some drunk looking at it trying to squint and focus that double set of strings back together.

Looks like your best option if you don't have one of those bridge clamps that suck Bob.

Jim

[Richard]

Ever vacuum clamp bridges? If you're setup for vacuum I'd be putting together a simple extra-wide bridge clamp so that you can locate and glue the bridge after the fretboard is in place.

Really intriguing design... keen to see this one come together!

[Dave White]

Bob,

Only just found this thread. That looks awesome Paddy Burgin was the first and I was just inspired by his and followed on (nagged by my daughter). I would have been tempted to glue the bridge on the top before you attached it to the sides. Colin Symonds uses a method on his classical guitar bridges that you might adapt:



Looking forward to see how this one develops. I'm currently making myself a Baritone Weissy as my sixtieth (or fifty plus VAT as I call it ) birthday present.

[Bob Connor]

I'm half set up for vacuum Richard.

I've got all the bits but haven't assembled them yet so I'll go with the go bar for this time but I'll definitely be looking at Vacuum in the future.

Your previous double-necker was the inspiration for this Dave so I've been looking back at your thread of how that one was braced to get some idea of how much bracing to put in this one. It's all an experiment really and I won't know until the strings go on. It's certainly a lot heftier bracing than I normally do for a this style of instrument.

Regards

[Dave White]

Your previous double-necker was the inspiration for this Dave so I've been looking back at your thread of how that one was braced to get some idea of how much bracing to put in this one. It's all an experiment really and I won't know until the strings go on. It's certainly a lot heftier bracing than I normally do for a this style of instrument.

If I was making another one I wouldn't do it ladder braced again - it's got a huge dip in front of the bridge and hump behind but is still holding together and sounds great. Lots of bracing needed in the bridge to edge of fingerboard area but your lack of soundhole will help lots. You'll have to be very delicate with your slide work to avoid hitting the 6th string of the first set when playing the first string of the second set but If you're doing Open Dm Open D tuning you could do all the delicate work on the bottom A and D strings and just use the lower set for chords. Probably more issues with playing the lower few strings of the first set of six without hitting the second set - I like to play partial chords in Open D using the slide over the bottom three strings where this would be an issue for me. Still it will keep you on your toes that's for sure

[ozziebluesman]

You could have the lower set of six strings tuned to DADDAD with no 3rd and as Dave said use those strings for accompaniment and then tune the top six to what ever you want either major, minor, Dom7, MAJ7 etc.....the very wide fingerboard is going to be a hand full but something you could get used to very easily....looking forward to the finished instrument...i do a version of The Beatles "Come Together" where I fiddled around with a tuning for days till I got something that would give me the main riff very easily and then figured out melody from there....if you played the six strings together they where dissonant with no harmony what so ever...

Cheers

Alan

[Bob Connor]

OK.

Got the bindings on so I'll be scraping them back tomorrow and sanding the purflings. (which are maple/koa/indian rosewood)

The only other business to be done is a backstrap on the peghead before I start pore filling with z-poxy.

I'm going to finish the top in a satin finish (Mirotone 3220 - 30%) as it'll be too hard to get a full gloss looking good around the bridge. The back and sides are some nicely figured Blackwood so I'll do them in full gloss Mirotone two pac.

Thanks for looking.

[Bob Connor]

Got some finish on it today.

Mirotone PU5555 two pack with PU5747 hardener and a splash of 1260 thinners.

These pics are after the first coat. They got a second coat after about 45 minutes.

I'll sand it during the week and buff next weekend so I guess that's when the strings'll go on. Good luck and a fair breeze the bloody thing won't collapse.

[ozziebluesman]

Spectacular instrument Bob....

Can't wipe the smile off my face what a ripper...would love to have play!

Cheers

Alan

[John Maddison]

Stunning, Bob.
Re: pic #2 ... How many slabs of Heineken ? ... have gone into this little baby?

[Bob Connor]

Thirsty work this instrument building John.

[Kev3]

This is turning into one heck of a great thread Bob - looks superb. I was just getting used to the size of this and then I saw the fretboard !

[DarwinStrings]

G'day Bob, two coats and buff the next weekend sounds pretty good, any other info on the finish, is it thin? will you still get that nice bit of ripple in the spruce?

Jim

[Bob Connor]

I actually did the top in Mirotone 3220 (30% satin) Jim so this one will ripple through. I only used the two pack on the back, sides and fingerboard

It's the first time I've used two pack so I'm not sure what will happen. I'm just hoping I don't sand through.

I was talking to Barry Kerr at Port Fairy and he uses it so I thought we'd give it a go. It doesn't "ball up" when sanding like nitro does so there's less chance of scratches when rubbing out the finish.

He said to give it the second coat in under an hour so that it burns in.

Which is why I'm hoping for no sand throughs because any subsequent coats will sit as a separate coat.


According to the msds sheets it's

dust free in 8 minutes.
touch dry 30 minutes
sand 100 minutes
hard dry 8 hours
full cure 5-7 days

Bit better than waiting a month for nitro to cure

Regards