BRW back and side set with bonus Mahogany neck?

[Kim]

Thanks Alan

Ive been getting the red x in Allen's tute on spraying and buffing a guitar, anyone else having that problem? Sorry to hijack this thread, Kim's comment brought it to mind. Wayne

Hey Wayne,

I checked and it does not appear that Allen's spraying/buffing tute had any images. Not sure if it would do that but maybe you have smileys disabled and they are generating the red x ??

Cheers

Kim

[56nortondomy]

Thanks Kim, if it's not too much trouble could you also check out the tute Spraying and spray guns by Bob Connor. I know that one had pics i remember them being there, but i'm getting the red x, i don't know why i could see them before and not now. Thanks Wayne

[DarwinStrings]

After a bit of a read Alan there are a few things about it that would indicate its age. The lower and upper bout dimensions put it before 1922. The BRW is likely to put it before 1920. The Mahogany neck may but does not necessarily put it post 1905. The only corresponding number to the one you gave me would make it between 1900 and 1905. I can't find anything that mentions serial numbers on the tail block but it does indicate that "American conservatory" were one of their lines other than "Washburn" that they felt worthy of a serial number so that number is possibly the serial. Could you post a pic of a detail of the tuner plates when you get time please.

Jim

[ozziebluesman]

On to it tomorrow Jim.

Thanks mate!

Cheers

Alan

[ozziebluesman]

Hi Jim, please find picture of the machine heads.

Cheers Alan

[ozziebluesman]

Thanks everyone for your comments. Saturday morning the top binding, top and neck where removed using the heat from a hairdryer and some special knives. The hide glue made it the job very easy. I took it real careful as I don't want any further damage. All went well! I have also made a body, fingerboard, head plate and side template. This info has been transferred to a plan and on to file and sent to Steve to be transferred to CAD to draw up the plan. Once the top was off it was easy enough take all the specs. I have re-glued one crack and the split in the spruce tail block. The crack was not completely closed up as the rosewood itself is very brittle and I don't want to make the crack bigger and cause more repair work. The crack is very stable so I will leave it at that! There are some side cracks where I will glue a patch inside to give the area strength.

I went over to see a friend today and showed him the guitar. The damage at the sound hole and inside at the transverse brace looks like to me it has been caused by a rodent say a mouse or rat or what ever animals have an appetite for spruce. The damage looks like it has been chewed by something. There is damage to the the spruce tail block where the end pins hole is located and on the inside it has been chewed also. We think that maybe something sweet or sticky may have been spilt over the sound hole area and that's what has made it tasty to chew. The damage is only to the spruce on the guitar. The guitar looks like it has been stored for many years and there are very few wear marks on it especially at the inside of the headstock where the guitars where left leaning against a wall. A lot of the Lyon Healy guitars I have seen have damage in that area. This guitar was meant for gut strings and there is no wear from strumming on the spruce top either or where your arm goes over the lower bout. The frets are almost unmarked and they look original. The machine head screws look like they have never been taken out as well. So a lot of guess work going on but my friend who is a cabinet maker and did his apprenticeship a chair maker has had a lot of experience and he agrees the damage to the guitar could have been done by a rodent.


More to come.............

Cheers

Alan

[DarwinStrings]

I was wondering what that damage around the sound hole was from as it just seemed weird. Thanks for the tuner shot but it doesn't help to pin its age down any further.

Jim

[ozziebluesman]

Here are some pictures of the damage to the spruce.

[nnickusa]

Are you sure that's just not one of Willie Nelson's guitars?

Seriously, look forward to your chronicle of the work on this one....

[Nick]

A small Beaver with a penchant for spruce?
Looking forward to this rebirth build Alan.

[ozziebluesman]

Two repairs carried out on the weekend along with the final gathering of brace system measurements drawn up for Steve.

I found it difficult to completely close the crack on the back. I tried to clean out the fragments in the crack but couldn't remove them all so the crack is repaired but sits a little proud now.

I am going to glue a patch on each of the on two side cracks on the inside of the guitar and fill the cracks on the outside.

Speaking of filling there is a gap either side of the back deco strip and the side splits. I thought I could use maybe some black superglue or timber mate walnut filler to fill the gaps what are your thoughts and should I glue in some side supports for protection further down the track? Maybe use the hemming tape soaked in HHG or thin strips of spruce? Any thoughts?

Thanks you for looking

Cheers

Alan

[colburge]

Wow, it is going be great when finished. The first time I saw that damage to the top I thought a rat had eaten it. In the last photos there even looks like there is some animal hair stuck on bits

Cheers

Col

[ozziebluesman]

Yes Col I forgot to mention that there was definitely animal hair inside the box!

Cheers

Alan

[ozziebluesman]

A few more pics for you all. I have now finished patching the cracks, cleaned out the excess hide glue on the sides of the braces, a light sand inside on the inside and repaired the big crack in the spruce tail block, There where also a few pieces of lining that had come off during the top removal so I replace them and sanded the top of the linings flat with the paddle sanding stick. The body is only 2 mm thick on the sides and the back is 2.5 mm so I decided to fit eight side braces to add some strength and painted them with some black flat paint so that when you look inside the guitar the side braces don't stand out like black you know whats on a white dog. I haven't filled the crack on the outside of the guitar yet as I am no sure what to use and how to go about it. There are some gaps that have opened up on the back strips that need to be filled too! If anyone has some suggestions how I go about the outside crack filling I am all ears?

The guitar has been measured and Steve is now drawing it up on CAD. We have had several emails as sometimes it is difficult to draw up a rough plan as I haven't done this before and I want it to be as close to the original as possible. For example the neck angle is built into the neck block and the neck tenon and cheeks are at right angle. It was difficult to explain that to Steve. We have it under control now after a few emails so when the final plan is ready it will just mean a final check of measurements and all done!

[ozziebluesman]

Sorry Moderators I have done it again and posted pics from photobucket.

Could you delete that post please?

Thanks

Alan

[colburge]

Alan

I probably missed it, but what are you going to do about the soundboard? Are you going to repair it somehow? I'm also interested in what you are going to do with the finish - are you just going to leave it as is, or keep it as original as possible?

Great job so far.

Col

[ozziebluesman]

G'day Col. I have asked Tim from Australiantonewoods to see if he has in his stash or can source a European Spruce top for the guitar. Bob our forum leader suggested a Euro top so I will go with his advice. Euro is a little stiffer than Engelmann and I have a responsive finger picker top in mind. Because the top is beyond repair the guitar will not be original so it will just make a nice little finger picker with Brazilian Rosewood back and sides. It will be a very lightly, x braced design. I would like to pass it on to my Grandson sometime in the future and tell him the story of the restoration. Although it is not original it is indeed over 100 years old.

Here are more pictures of the back seam gap and the side supports painted.

Cheers

[nnickusa]

Alan, if you don't have any luck, i have a set of Italian Spruce......

[ozziebluesman]

Thanks Nick that will be a great backup plan...

I have some nice stiff Englemann which might do as well. I will need to pull it out of the rack and have a tap, feel and good look.

Cheers

Alan

[56nortondomy]

Alan, what about some epoxy with black tempura powder mixed in to fill the cracks, heat it up a bit and it will flow in, ive been doing that on some fret markers i'm inlaying, works good. Wayne

[liam_fnq]

Provided the cracks are not going anywhere, I wouldn't be filling them with anything. Maybe just a light bit of blond shellac to seal any raw wood.

[ozziebluesman]

Wayne: I don't use epoxy as a rule but I think that would work. The cracks are stable with the inside patching so I though maybe some black superglue as filler?

Liam: I like you thoughts as the cracks are stable.

Thanks for your suggestions

Cheers

[P Bill]

Nice work Alan,
You seem to really have an affinity for these major renos. Like any reno it can take unexpected turns. Well done.

[ozziebluesman]

Thanks Bill. I am very happy with the reno so far. This is all new territory for me. I think building a new one is a far less stressful hobby. The biggest issue I have found is the rosewood is so brittle it will crack even if you look at it too long!

There is no hurry but I have to put some thought into how I am going to fill these cracks as they are a little too big and deep to leave. I didn't want to touch the finish maybe just try and match the colour of the crack filling. Any more advice greatly received.

Cheers

Alan

[DarwinStrings]

G'day Alan, looking good so far mate. I guess other than the black C.A. another alternative would be to wick some thin C.A. into the cracks after filling them with a bit of IRW dust off a file (I reckon I would test on scrap first). I am not sure why you don't want to touch the finish as I would have though adding some more shellac would have been a bit of a benefit. Maybe a P.M. to Robbie O. or Tippie might be helpful.

Jim