Commiseration thread for those of us stuck on all this math.

[n~dl]

Whew! Anyone else struggling to wrap their head around most of it? I recently took an intermediate algebra course after fifteen years without a single thought about numbers and I was able to ace it -- it required teaching myself long division all over again, i.e. it was a LOT of catching up -- so I think I can tackle this, but it's certainly going to take some time. What am I even looking at in here, calculus? I don't know where to begin. Maybe I'll find some old high school text books at the Goodwill...

[Trevor Gore]

Hey, how do you think I felt? It was thirty-odd years since I'd seen most of this stuff, too!

If you just want to design and build guitars, all you need is addition, subtraction, multiplication and division. Then being able to use a spreadsheet helps. Most of the complex stuff reduces to fairly straight forward formulae, some of which only look complicated because they are big. But since when has big been a problem?

You only need the advanced maths if you want to develop new theory or verify what I've done (which has mostly been done by others, now and is mostly OK).

I have been pleasantly surprised by all the people who have emailed me saying how much pleasure they got out of getting the formulae to work, some having had to dust off books and notes written decades before, bringing back pleasant memories of the past (or nightmares for those who had been forced to do the maths "elective").

Just make sure you have fun. There's a lot of help around this place if you get stuck!

[kiwigeo]

Having a brother who's a maths teacher helps in my case.

[kiwigeo]

I also bought one of these babies.....

[Tod Gilding]

Yeah I struggled with the math as well, but at the end of the day it allowed someone like me, with only a couple of builds under the belt to produce an amazing instrument that I still Can't put down

[Dominic]

Its the way people view the equations that makes them seem either easy or near impossible. When the book says, the following expression gives us the slope of line X, just believe it and read on. Don't get too hung up on variables just yet, and read the text through. This will give you a bit more context for the equations. Once you are more familiar with the purpose of the equations they will be easier to work out. None of it is too scary.

Good luck with it all guys.
Dom

[kiwigeo]

Its the way people view the equations that makes them seem either easy or near impossible. When the book says, the following expression gives us the slope of line X, just believe it and read on. Don't get too hung up on variables just yet, and read the text through. This will give you a bit more context for the equations. Once you are more familiar with the purpose of the equations they will be easier to work out. None of it is too scary.

Good luck with it all guys.
Dom

A typical response from someone who's good at maths. I believe that ability to handle matsh is governed by the way our brains are wireed and early education experiences.

My brother and I are an excellent example of this. Our brains work very differently...from a young age my brother was always able to easily solve puzzles while I struggled. It took him 5 minutes to work out Rubics cube when it first came out...I tried for an hour and then threw the thing in the creek behind my parents property. Similarly while myself and my brither are musical and can play instruments (my brother plays trumoet) my brother excels at sight reading but struggles playing by ear while Im the other way around.

Im a scientist but Geology luckily is one of those subjects where you can get by without a good grasp on maths. That said once Im exposed to any heavy geophysics then I go to pieces.

Either way Trev and Dom I think youre great blokes but youre still complete propeller heads

[Tod Gilding]

Its the way people view the equations that makes them seem either easy or near impossible. When the book says, the following expression gives us the slope of line X, just believe it and read on. Don't get too hung up on variables just yet, and read the text through. This will give you a bit more context for the equations. Once you are more familiar with the purpose of the equations they will be easier to work out. None of it is too scary.

Good luck with it all guys.
Dom

Either way Trev and Dom I think youre great blokes but youre still complete propeller heads

[Dominic]

OK, now that you have that off your chest, try what I said. Name each set of equations something less intimidating then read the text and don't get hung up on trying to understand the equations. Most terms will have a simple geometric definition somewhere, as in, defining the slope of a line.

Most important, have fun.
Cheers
Dom

[n~dl]

Yeah, that's where I'm at, just trying to pace myself through the books until I have a grasp on the total arc of it. I know I'll have to read them five times before enough of it sinks in!

I've found that if I take each step very, very slowly I can get up to snuff in the math department, but my knowledge retention is zip! I took out some notes from my algebra course I aced just a few months ago and already it's hieroglyphs!

[ozwood]

I Find the Black Book Excellent.................................................for lifting up the Computer Monitor a Bit .

[charangohabsburg]

Paul, what did you expect to find in the book when you ordered it?

[ozwood]

Hi Markus,

Two Books : white Book for people Like me , Practical application , how, why, and with what ...... Love that book it's my Bible,
Trevor won't be offended, I have done his course, My mathmatical Limitations are well known to him. ( my apolagies if that's otherwise Trevor).

Second Book : the Black one, It's good too ............ When Jeff Highland Explains it to me. I don't open it so much!

Not POO POOing the Book at all, Just having a laugh at my own limitations , after all this is the Maths Dunce support group thread.

Regards,

[charangohabsburg]

Not POO POOing the Book at all,

So I did not misunderstand you . That was clear for me as you clearly mentioned to use the black (and not the white) volume for non intended purposes.

For me, the white volume without the black one does not go beyond the presentation of Trevor's an Gerard's practical approaches (vs. numerous other author's books which present their own building approaches). I see the black volume as a tool which can be used to improve and/or re-think any approach (a tool which of course - you are right - is not everybody's cup of tea).

Just having a laugh at my own limitations ,

While I think it is a good thing to be able to laugh about oneself I am sure that it is not a good idea to believe in one's own limitations because it is not the limitation itself which delimits our abilities; it is the belief in them. If you always would have laughed at your own limitations you never would have started to build guitars, and much less would have finished those beauties you are creating!

Cheers,

[ozwood]

Not POO POOing the Book at all,

So I did not misunderstand you . That was clear for me as you clearly mentioned to use the black (and not the white) volume for non intended purposes.

For me, the white volume without the black one does not go beyond the presentation of Trevor's an Gerard's practical approaches (vs. numerous other author's books which present their own building approaches). I see the black volume as a tool which can be used to improve and/or re-think any approach (a tool which of course - you are right - is not everybody's cup of tea).

Just having a laugh at my own limitations ,

While I think it is a good thing to be able to laugh about oneself I am sure that it is not a good idea to believe in one's own limitations because it is not the limitation itself which delimits our abilities; it is the belief in them. If you always would have laughed at your own limitations you never would have started to build guitars, and much less would have finished those beauties you are creating!

Cheers,

Thanks Markus ,

I think But you need to live here to get the self depricating humour that is uniquly Australian, I do look at the black Book and I do understand the concept of Trevors ideas, can I do alot of the calculations, not a chance , But I'm OK with that, ( there is all different kinds of smart) neither can a lot of others and they still make fine instruments. at the end of the day it's a hobby, if I need to go to University to use the use the black book to it's full potential then it's not a hobby, it's become a chore. I'm sure if someone turned up to Wayne Hendersons workshop and said show us your plot and your Helmholtz calcs he would tell them to F%#*off , He still makes Bloody awsome guitars so once again ( see Pearlzilla thread) viewtopic.php?f=25&t=4874&hilit=pearlzilla lets not react as though I have just Blasphemed the Bible, I'm sue Trevor and anyone else who has met me took it in the spirit in which it was meant.

Cheers,

[charangohabsburg]

I do look at the black Book and I do understand the concept of Trevors ideas,

You are gifted. I wouldn't understand the concept of Trevor's ideas looking at his black book under the monitor.

[ozwood]

clearly a cultural humour divide

[kiwigeo]

Swiss Army Humour?