The Improved Rosette Cutter

[Allen]

Never having built a violin, I'm not in the slightest way informed on how they would want a gramil designed. And to be honest it wasn't a consideration. Call it a bias to guitar family instruments.

I've had to glue on a couple of finger boards on ones lately and they seem very tiny and delicate. Personally I would think that this tool may be a bit too large and have more mass than what would be optimum for that task. Cello's and arch top guitars on the other hand would be more in line with it's scale.

Dom, you posted while I was writing this. Not clear to me. How about a picture.

[kevjed]

If you are taking expressions of interest for orders?...count me in.
with thanks
Kevin

[Graham Long]

Looks Great - Good to see home grown innovation
Add me to your list of customers
Cheers

[Clancy]

It's getting to be a big list!
I wouldn't want to miss out on one.

[steve_I]

Please count me in for an order. This looks like a great tool.

[Dominic]

Hope this helps. The verticle bar is the gremlin and the horizontal bar is your existing tool. The top bit of the gremlin has a hole cut through which the knife bar fits. Despite my crappy picture the side of the gremlin that runs against the top is smooth and does not step all the way up the knife bar. And one screw into the body of the tool should be enough to fix it solidly.

let me know if have succeeded to make it more clear or not.
Cheers
Dom

[Bruce McC]

Allen

Are you going to do a left handed version?

[Localele]

CAD drawings are done for that Bruce. It mainly involves me standing at the back of the lathe while machining and I have been practising.

[Shane Briggs]

Hey guys,

I'll place an order for one to! They will look great all polished up!

Maybe an attachment for the drill press, making cutting a solid wood rosette ring a lot
Easier!

Thanks ,
Shane

[matthew]

Looks nice. The fine adjustment is a nice idea. I'm tempted.

However using as a gramil on an archtop instrument I think the blade-clamping thumbscrew may tend to scratch the top unless the blade protrudes a lot.

Is it a standard thread? Could you substitute an off-the-shelf socket-head grubscrew instead of the thumbscrew?

[Localele]

The knob size will be reduced in the production models Matthew.A socket headed screw will fit but I am going to change that thread to a finer one for a better feel.Also the knurl gives a better grip without the need for a tool to tighten it.
Big news is the gramil function will be removed and a new tool made to do that job. I have a prototype drawing which looks great and will post it after the first couple are made and tested a bit.While it was a good thought to try to combine the 2 ,it makes a compromise for both.Allen and I had been discussing separating them and that is when the new idea came about.The gramil function added a few compromises that we weren't happy with.
Any ideas for a name as "gramil" appears to be Spanish for Marking Knife ? Has anyone heard of a different term for these tools?

[Allen]

Hey guys,

I'll place an order for one to! They will look great all polished up!

Maybe an attachment for the drill press, making cutting a solid wood rosette ring a lot
Easier!

Thanks ,
Shane

In our research we looked at those drill press options, and discarded them right away as they just frighten the hell out of us. Far too dangerous with a big hunk of metal swinging around like that even at the lowest rpm.

First and foremost we wanted a well made hand tool that gives people every chance to do exceptional work. It had to be whisper quiet as quite a few builders (especially those working on ukuleles) work on their kitchen table in apartments with neighbours just a thin wall away.

Cutting the rosette in solid hard wood is really easy. Absolutely no more difficult than cutting out the sound hole. The blade is extremely sharp, and it's always an option to flip the piece over 1/2 way through the cut and come from the other side if you feel it warrants. That's what I've done when I have a sound hole patch on a top, making the total thickness in that area more like 4mm.

[jeffhigh]

I'm definitely keen on the single purpose rosette cutter, makes sense to me not to make it jack of all trades.
Actually, i'd even like to see separate Gramil units optimised for cutting top and side grooves.

[charangohabsburg]

Great and promising looking design! I could/should have said this already a couple of days ago, but my remark is so obvious that I first decided to not say anything at all... Well, now I have said it anyway.

Any ideas for a name as "gramil" appears to be Spanish for Marking Knife ? Has anyone heard of a different term for these tools?

Yes, gramil is the Spanish term for marking knife or marking gauge. Nothing esoteric about the lure of "gramil".

While it was a good thought to try to combine the 2 ,it makes a compromise for both.Allen and I had been discussing separating them and that is when the new idea came about.

I also think that two separate tools make better tools, and also "readier to use" ones.

If this thread is (amongst other reasons) intended for estimating the size of the first batch to be made, increment the counter by one.

[Bob Connor]

If this thread is (amongst other reasons) intended for estimating the size of the first batch to be made, increment the counter by one.

By two please.

[Nick]

The knob size will be reduced in the production models Matthew.A socket headed screw will fit but I am going to change that thread to a finer one for a better feel.Also the knurl gives a better grip without the need for a tool to tighten it.

If you find you don't get as much purchase on a smaller knob Micheal, I use a little trick when knurling. Short of using a really coarse knurl pitch that threatens to flagellate your skin at the slightest slip , if you have enough width I usually put a radial groove in the middle of the head so as to split the knurl into two sections, I've used this technique on heads that were only 4mm wide so the width doesn't have to be that much to begin with! The groove itself doesn't have to be deep or wide (infact on an insert type toolholder I just rotate the toolpost so the tool is on an angle that doesn't foul the chuck), just plunge the tool in until the knurl disappears. Not only does it give it a bit 'classier' look in my opinion (when combined with a shallow recess in the top face) but it seems to improve the grip that knurling gives you.
The problem I found on smaller diameters was that there didn't seem to be enough contact area and I found that it was possible for your fingers to slip over the knurl when it got to the business end of the tightening procedure, this groove just seems to provide your fingers an extra 'edge' to gain purchase.

[Localele]

At the risk of giving away more secrets Nick, I also put a nylon washer between the knurled screws and the item they are clamping. This gives a nice feel and no marring of the clamped part.The finer thread has a bit more torque as well.

[mooshalah]

Hoi!

I'd like to put my name down to purchase one of these, if and when they become available.

I always appreciate well designed and executed tools and this certainly fits these criteria.

Is there some formal list (like, of email names and addresses) to which I need to add this expression of interest, or is this message sufficient? I mean, how are you going to go, receiving these scattered and various expressions of interest?

Frank.

[Allen]

No talk over this yet but in the long term I imagine that we will just have them available through our websites for purchase. Those interested can get them there at any time then.

Micheal has sent a picture to me of the gramil prototype. A couple more improvements to be made on it but now I really want one.

[Localele]

I'm definitely keen on the single purpose rosette cutter, makes sense to me not to make it jack of all trades.
Actually, i'd even like to see separate Gramil units optimised for cutting top and side grooves.

Well it hasn't got 2 blades Jeff but it is easy to adjust and should be simple to swap sizes.For your common sizes I would just scribe a mark onto it and adjust to that.There is also the option of having 2 tools and leaving one set up for each job.

[Mark McLean]

Hi guys
I have been away for a couple of weeks and I have just caught up on this exciting thread. Very nice idea - well executed. I will join the queue for one as well.
cheers
Mark

[ckngumbo]

Please put me n the list if you intend to ship to the US,
Rob Francis

[Allen]

Shipping will be where ever people are. They aren't going to be overly large or heavy so cost will be quite reasonable.

[matthew]

A good project for Nick's desktop 3D printer perhaps? Would keep the postage down ...

[Allen]

I've done all the CAD drawings, but I'm not sure that plastic is going to cut it.