Buffing

[voitty]

Can anyone give me some help with a budget polisher/buffer that I can use to buff up my guitar. I have watched Alans video but that buffer is way out of my budget so something that would do a good job would be great. There are a lot of ebay buffers but not sure if they will just be junk.

[Kim]

A 7"> foam buff from your local paint supplier fitted to a drillpress is cheap and very effective. Before Allen switched to an air tool for guitars that is exactly what he used.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=343

Cheers

Kim

[simso]

Agreed, the basic buff attached to a drill press or electric drill will do the job for you.

I have 2 buffing wheels attached to a bench grinder for small generic stuff, and fret polishing and so forth, But if Im buffing a whole guitar I use the big dedicated makita hand buffer, beautiful piece of equipment

[simso]

Just finished a neck reset, and had the two types of buffers and pads we are discussing here, so I popped of a photo

Both do an okay job

[Allen]

For the poor man's buffing system you can use one of those larger buffing pads chucked into your drill press if you have one of course. It's the way I did mine for several years before getting a compressor large enough to handle the task of running a mini buff. I just found a bolt with the same thread pitch as the backing pad, cut the head off of it and away you go.

Make sure that you cover up the drill press column and table with something to protect it from stray compound that will fly everywhere if you get carried away, as well as protecting the instrument for inadvertent bumps against hard and sharp metal corners.

[rocket]

Allen, is there a reason you preferred an air driven tool for buffing, rather than a battery or 240v powered alternative?
Cheers,,

Rod.

[Kamusur]

Just to add a couple of points re the pads mentioned and shown above. They are colour coded and available in soft, medium and hard and i wouldn't think you should need a hard pad if the finish on the guitar guitar is anything like the one in the photo above, I would aim for a soft one.

Personally I would apply/spread the polish/compound with a cloth or 'muneca' style of rag rather than using the machine to spread it so the surface is more evenly covered, always in a circular motion and always lengthways where possible (same rule for sanding and spraying so swirls arent crossed etc).
Keep the machine moving at all times (and take care near edges where varnishes and painted finishes can be at their thinnest) also lenghthways and with the grain (things can get hot underfoot) and wear safety glasses.
Make sure any compound (used for cutting) or polish (with no cutting ability) is machine compatible and probably no more than fine or ultra fine would be the choice of most people here on this forum due to the quality of the work pre buff/polish stage.

Steve

[Kim]

I actually find that applying enough product to allow a reducing 'lip' of polish to form at the leading edge of the pad as it moves across the surface provides a visual aid to help maintain even pressure and reduce the danger of the worked surface drying out, over heating and burning through....it is a bit more messy though, but its only polish.

I have been using Meguiare's #2 (Fine Cut) followed up by Meguiare's #9 (Swirl Remover) cause that is what was on special at SCA when I went shopping but may try the Mothers products that Allen recommends next time.



Note how they call their #9 product, No2 swirl remover....clear as mud Mr Meguiar

Cheers

Kim

[Allen]

There's no reason to pick electric over air if you have the option. Holden, Ford....you still get your groceries home in the same time. Whatever blows your fur back.

Me, I prefer air as it's what I'm use to. I've got all the air tools you would ever dream of, and I find them a lot more controlable. Just have to have the compressor to run them.

As for the amount of compound to use, most people end up using WAY to much. If it's more than just a dab on the pad, then it's too much.

What you end up doing with too much compound is pushing it around with a slurry of it between the job and the pad until it starts to dry out and gets thrown off in spatter or dust. Wasting a lot of product and time. It's not until it gets down to a semi dry state with just a bit there that any work is being done by the buffing pad and compound.

To put it another way, it's a small amount of abrasive that is suspended in a liquid medium that is impregnated into the buffing pad that is doing the work. Exactly like sandpaper works, but much finer. You would never expect a piece of sandpaper to work well that had what would be the equivalent of 100 - 1000 times more grit stacked on top of the cutting layer next to the paper would you? Those other cutting particles are just in the way of the ones that will eventually do the work.

To give you an idea of how much I'd use to buff a car that is in moderate need of a buff. Take the cap of the bottle of compound you are using. Fill it up......You got it. It's about that much for a whole car. Now have a think about how much you require for a guitar or ukulele. I dare say that you've been using a lot more than that.

[Kim]

In case of some misunderstanding, I am certainly not advocating using 'too much' polish Allen. Certainly no more than we see you using in this image.



My last point was meant to be taken in context with the previous post above it and remains that during application, 'I' find leaving enough product to form a decreasing lip at the leading edge of the foam buff provides me with a visual aid that helps maintain an even pressure on the leading edge of the foam, and therefore, an even distribution of polish across the work surface.

Certainly not one to argue with your take on this aspect of the craft Allen because most all of what I know that has worked well for me has been taken directly from your excellent tutorials on the subject. However I am fairly certain you would agree when I suggest that not having enough polish on the work surface is also detrimental to the outcome. The goldie locks amount would of cause always be just right, but given the rapid heat build from higher friction with removal of lubrication normally provided by the liquid within the polish itself, coupled with the high potential for a warm/hot foam buff to suddenly grab a warm/hot and now sticky finish and throw whatever is attached to it across the shed with considerable force, perhaps not enough polish is more of a dance with disaster for a novice like myself than too much?

Cheers

Kim

[Dominic]

I used to use those foam buffs in the drill press but without fail the body would spin off the pad at least once and get hit by the hard plastic rim and take a little gouge of finish off. Really annoying when you are that close to the finish line. Its purely user error but I couldn’t work out how to prevent it.
I have since got a proper 2 buff setup and its much easier and gives much better results for me. Expensive but it will last for a hundred years.
Dom

[Kim]

I used to use those foam buffs in the drill press but without fail the body would spin off the pad at least once and get hit by the hard plastic rim and take a little gouge of finish off. Really annoying when you are that close to the finish line. Its purely user error but I couldn’t work out how to prevent it. Dom

Its time like this that a man needs a good dog around to shoulder the blame and wear kick in the arse with an ear full of profanities without arguing back..Doing this to the wife is not such a good idea because bones are far cheaper than flowers and chocolates and if 'he' ever grows tired of all you're insincere apologies and leaves you, at least he won't take most of what you own with him...Happy wife = Happy Life...an alternative perhaps would be to use a little bit more polish so the foam buff does not grab so easy.

Cheers

Kim

[Allen]

Fair call Kim and your absolutely right regarding that picture. However I've learn't a fair bit since then and I'll be the first to put my hand up and say that was way too much F#@$king much compound. You should have seen the mess it made of my workshop.

[Kamusur]

Well said gentlemen but Allen, what sort of safety glasses are those?

Steve

[kiwigeo]

Well said gentlemen but Allen, what sort of safety glasses are those?

Steve

Looking at the cuts on Allen's left hand I reckon he needs a bit of hand protection as well.

[Graham Long]

Hi,
Is the Stewmac 14" Buff any good?
Graham

[Nick]

Hi,
Is the Stewmac 14" Buff any good?
Graham

I use a Stewmac Buffer & I'm more than pleased with the results it yeilds compared to when I used to hand rub a finish. There are MAJOR things to remember however with any of that style of buff, Keep the work moving over the buffs (avoid heat build up in one spot on the guitar) & definitely avoid presenting an edge to the leading side of the buff (always have the wheel trailing off of an edge!), the wheel's peripheral speed is scary & it will grab your new pride & joy & hours of hard work from your hands and throw it unmercilessly against the floor without even slowing down! . It tried to do it to me once early on in the piece but fortunately I was gripping the guitar tightly enough that it didn't but it was scary enough that everytime I fire that sucker up now, the feeling of true fear pops back into my head & reminds me to adhere to correct practice!
A couple of points in the 'cons' column though is 1) Price, unless you plan on doing a fair amount of finish work, these probably aren't the most cost effective method where as the buffer pads already mentioned are, & 2) They aren't very good at getting into tight cutaways if the neck is on the guitar of an acoustic and also the neck side of the cutaway on an electric. These area's will still require finishing by hand.

[Dominic]

Yes, I have the SM buff. The new one has 1" axle so it is stiff and more solid and heavy than other versions I have seen like the shopfox. There is no much that can go wrong. Its a very solid unit and bearings can be replaced so its virtually indestructable.
I set mine up with a loose drive belt so the buff will stop spinning if too much pressure is applied. I saw this somewhere, might have been Robbie OBrien tips and tricks. But its a good idea and works well with me. I use bolt on necks so I have not any issues with access to tight areas. And seriously, the finish I am getting from this is far better than what I got from the foam buffs in the drill press so i believe it will pay for itself over time despite the initial cost. I got mine while the dollar was at it highest.
Happy to give more details if you need.
Cheers
Dom

[pat foster]

Hiya, folks down under! Been a while!

I just got the new SM buffer and couldn't be happier, though my pocket book is feeling a little depleted. I put a v-link belt on it and it got even smoother.

Pat

[rocket]

Gizza look Pat!!!
Cheers , china plate, cobba,
Hope ya sky rocket comes good real soon.
Rod,,,

[rocket]