Member Introduction and Current Build

[Sean Syman]

Kia Ora guys,
My name is Sean Syman and I'm a Kiwi originally from Wellington but currently doing a mechanical engineering degree down in Christchurch (living through the earthquakes, lectures in tents aren't that great really!). I'm 18 and built my first guitar last year in my basement, an all Sapele Teardrop Weissenborn built with no plans and no ideas, however it sounds alright with a deep bassy sound (which is obviously not typical of a regular teardrop). I'm a trombone and double bass player along with guitar, so bass is just something I always seem to go for without thinking.
My current build is a steel string acoustic with an off-set soundhole and "A" shape bracing, styled partially off a set of Liutaio Mottola's plans and the Tacoma wing series guitars, as well as a whole lot of development during boring lectures. It's another all Sapele construction (I've got a decent amount of some good Sapele and dig the all mahogany sound). The soundbox of the guitar was built in my recent 2 week Uni holidays, where Tony Francis graciously allowed me to use a bench in his Kapiti workshop for a week. Tony is a fantastic guy and an even better builder, his Weissenborn reproductions are spectacular as I've seen first hand.
The neck for the guitar is being built with the help of a local on here, Nick Oliver, down in Christchurch. As I'm just across the road from the Uni (and therefore Nick's workshop) it's great for me, and Nick is an incredibly helpful and interesting guy, allowing me to sneakily use the workshop a couple of hours a week.
Anyway, on with some build photos;

Hopefully that comes out alright, I'm new to this stuff. Any comments or feedback are appreciated!
Cheers, Sean

[kiwigeo]

Welcome to the forum Sean. Nice work on the guitar. You're off to a great start having hooked up with Tony and Nick.....

[Daniel_M]

Welcome aboard Sean. Looks great so far. I would be very interested in hearing about the bracing.

[maurie]

Welcome to the forum Sean.
The guitar is looking great so far.
I am currently completing my second Mattola "Ipomoea" steel string. The first one sounds good but is very basey and slightly lacking in top end. I have taken less off the braces on the second to try and lift the treble side.
I think you will be very happy with the completed project.
Cheers Maurie.

[Sean Syman]

Hey there guys,

I've hit a bit of a setback in the build, in fact a very large setback! Nick and I were matching the body to the neck to route the dovetail on the neck, and discovered that my previously nicely arched top has sunk in to about 1.5mm below the sides at the bridge. I won't be repeating the language I used, but you get the idea.

This would have happened for a couple of reasons: The sapele top is almost flatsawn, and I moved the build from Wellington to Christchurch when I came back down here for Uni. This was pretty dumb on the whole because the wood has dried out and moved a lot.

So today Nick and I took the top off to see if we could salvage the wood at least by rebracing. I 'borrowed' a clothes iron from my hostel, and using that to heat the joint whilst running a razor blade around, and the top came off nice and cleanly (Aliphatic resin was the glue used). Unfortunately after taking the plate off it decided to warp even more, and the centre join split apart in places. Taking off the braces only made it worse.

So I've decided I can't salvage it, from here I can either:

- Bring some more sapele down from Wellington (I have some more of the same wood sitting there).

- Or buy some sitka spruce off Nick, which he has kindly offered for sale at the price he bought it for.

Anyway here's a progress photo of the routed headstock, cheers guys.

[Clancy]

That's a bummer Sean.
Lutherie is a name for a dictionary of four letter word at times.
Believe me, I've said them all, but in the end it's just a piece of wood that doesn't know better!
Pick up the next bit & move on, you always end up getting there even if it's not what you planned when you started.

[Sean Syman]

Cheers Craig, I think I would have been a bit less civil if Nick wasn't there as well haha!

My comment to Nick was this is probably why students are known to drink so much: We make so many mistakes that we need to forget!

My only concern with the spruce top is that it will take away from the mellow deep tone that I was going for. My first guitar was a teardrop weissenborn from the same wood, which did not move like the wood on this guitar has. It has a rather deep body and a really deep and rich tone that I like. Just for show and tell's sake here's a quick picture:

Anyway, the plus side of this is that I get to carve out some more braces, all good fun. Cheers guys!

[Bruce McC]

Hey Sean

Nice looking guitar mate, pity about the background photo,
next time at least put the seat down

[H3ytm@n]

Nice looking guitars mate!!

[kiwigeo]

... pity about the background photo,
next time at least put the seat down

No women living in the house obviously

[Trevor Gore]

Sean,

It doesn't matter how good you are, where you build or what you build with, if your wood isn't in equilibrium at 45% relative humidity (8% moisture content) you get exactly what you got, unless you just happen to luck out. That's even if you use well quartered wood; and it doesn't matter how old it is or how dry it has been or how well seasoned, all your cross-grain gluing (e.g. braces onto panels) should be done when the parts are in moisture equilibrium at 45% RH. That gives your guitar the best chance of staying "straight", no matter where it ends up geographically. Typically, you should allow "dry" top or back wood at final thickness 5 days at 45% RH to reach equilibrium, or you are chancing it. That means that a humidity controlled storage/assembly space is a necessity if you want to get serious about guitar making. Waiting for the right weather isn't really an option.

Good luck with your next shot at it!

Trevor Gore

[Sean Syman]

Haha hadn't noticed that at all! Wouldn't have been the first thing I noticed to be honest. And no Martin, but my poor mother is outnumbered with two sons and no daughters.
Cheers for the kind words guys.

[Kim]

Gday Sean, welcome to the ANZLF

Bummer about the sapele not working out for you mate but we live and learn. You're very fortunate to have Nick around because he has shown himself to be a highly skilled craftsman on a number of fronts on this forum. So this build is a wonderful opertunity for you share his experience as a top class tradesman with an obvious passion for everything he turns his hand to...lucky, lucky, you.

As for your replacement, I would avoid more of the same and not use flatsawn wood that will need time to settle once you get it back to CC. If Nick has offered you some quartered spruce that sits there acclimatised and ready to go in Christchurch, that is a 'gift' and you should jump at it IMHO.

If you are concerned about loss of bass response because sitka is more stiff than sapele, then think about using a combination of thinning the plates and the hight of the bracing to free the top up to move more like what you were looking for from the heavier hardwood top. As long as you maintain the required structural integrity you could well find that the spruce is superior because not only is it stiff, its also lighter by comparison so can use string energy very efficiently....but its all in the balance.

Cheers

Kim

[Sean Syman]

Thanks for the advide Trevor, further reinforcing what Tony Francis was telling me today, which was along similar if not exactly the same lines. As I'm currently in Nick's workshop humidity should not be a problem thankfully. My sapele had been stored in my basement at home in Wellington, which is also our workshop space. This is a pretty damp and cold environment unfortunately, probably sitting around 70% (the same as it is outside in Welly). The wood was not in Tony's humidity controlled workshop for long enough to stabilise either.
When I eventually make some money and get out of student debt, I will be very sure to create a stable, dry environment for my workshop. A hot box is probably a good idea too from what I've read; this thread is huge but has some fantastic information (Thanks Tony for the link) http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.y ... j5rvYL1GSq

On a side note Trevor I recently read your report on Wood for Guitars, as an engineering student I found it incredibly interesting and a great in-depth analysis of the physics and engineering involved. I won't claim to understand entirely all of the concepts, but hey, I'm getting there.

Thanks Kim, I have decided to take up Nick's offer and buy that set of spruce off him, he's very generous and I'm making sure I'm paying a fair price for it! I've been very lucky with different luthiers such as Tony and Nick offering time and wisdom, and very thankful for it. As far as bass response goes, from my understanding this bracing scheme produces more bass than expected from the size anyway, coupled with my use of deeper sides (the double bassist in me) so the spruce could be a wise move, as it will clear up the tone a lot more.

Cheers guys, glad for all the advice.

[kiwigeo]

Sean,

I'm visiting Christchurch Sept 22 through to 27th. If you're still around Id love to catch up with you and Nick.

Cheers Martin

[Trevor Gore]

Sean,

I just read the link you posted. Phew! Ignore it! Yes, there is some good stuff in there, but most people wouldn't be able to tell it from the bad (which seems to predominate!)

Having fixed a few Gibsons and Martins, I don't believe they ever had their processes in sufficient control to have delivered standard curvatures in either tops or backs!

The vast majority of my guitars have "live" backs with a 3m radius dome curvature. Really stable, anywhere in the world they've been. Not the idea that you'd pick up from reading that thread. But I don't use standard ladder bracing on the backs, either.

In the Design section of "the book" there's a whole section (Section 1.6.5) on how different panel curvatures change the frequency of a top panel relative to a that of a flat panel. And there's all the stuff on humidity control, how to run a "hot box" etc. etc. For an engineering student like yourself, it's a must! The time effort and expense that went into your "learning experience" top would have covered it's cost!

Cheers, Trevor Gore.

[Sean Syman]

Trevor,

From Tony's interpretation and a decent amount of reading, the main person to pay attention to it that thread is Willi Henks (BHguitars).

Cheers, Sean

[Sean Syman]

It's finished!

Well mostly. Still got to bring the action down and tidy the nut up, as well as level the frets, but ran out of time in the workshop on Saturday. So here's some photos!

The new spruce top all braced up;

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The side of the fingerboard here uses an idea I borrowed from Jeffery Yong's Seismic guitar, where there is a small scallop present between the frets on the edge of the board, allowing for easier access for thumbed notes. I find I only play with the thumb up to the 7th fret, so only scalloped these 7 frets. This is a fantastic idea, incredibly comfortable to play, I'm loving having it on the guitar.

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Jarrah bridge, to match the Jarrah fretboard

Finish is tru-oil, with one pore-filling coat of epoxy which filled most of the pores but left some shallow grain texture present, which I really like as the natural look and finish appeals to me. I'm sure the lack of bindings and ornamentation will disagree with some people, but my preference is for a simple, natural aesthetic, and I feel that has really been achieved in this guitar.

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The guitar sounds very good, nice and clean and focused. I've been putting it through it's paces despite the high action and non-levelled frets, but the buzzes are killing me so hopefully I can get into the workshop somewhere between study and exams to finish it all up. The tone is very suited to jazz and blues, with almost an archtop-ish quality (which could be due to similarities in bracing). It really thrives in lower tunings, particularly open C, and I'm very happy with it.

I'd like to say a huge thanks to Nick for the use of his workshop and his continued support with re-topping and any questions I had throughout the build. It's really made a difference having the proper tools and procedures in this build compared to my first, and some expert advice and second opinion on hand. Also to Tony for the use of his workshop for a week or so, and his advice and conversation throughout the whole build as well.

Comments and criticisms are very appreciated, back to the dynamics study for me now. Cheers guys.

[charangohabsburg]

Ain't she sweet!

[Nick]

Comments and criticisms are very appreciated, back to the dynamics study for me now. Cheers guys.

Might want to run an iron over that sheet mate!

[christian]

Congrats Sean on a great instrument, love the look of it clean and simple yet elegant, I can see how those fret scallops would make a difference. and good on you Nick for helping and sharing your expertise.

Cheers,

Christian.

[Kerplunk]

Hi Sean,
'shame about losing the original top; 'really liked how the grain swooped in and down the centreline of the face with "wings" on either sides of the lower bout.

Still - looks like you managed to score exactly that with the weissenborn (both faces taken from the same plank of wood there?).

That sapele's nice-looking stuff; does it always look that good, or did you manage to score some "one-in-a-million" nicely figured material?

Can't blame you for "boring lecture" product development, but having an "almost there" build at the same time as you're supposed to be studying for exams sounds to me like a risky proposition - much too much in the way of distraction. You're going to have to be disciplined and keep your mind on the exams; that final tune-up may need to be an after-exams treat.

On the other hand, it could also be a safety valve to give you an occasional break from studying to prevent pre-exam burn-out.

Guess that all depends on the kind of person you are, and how well you know and can manage yourself..... maybe you'll need to restrict further builds to uni-holidays only, or, maybe having a build on the side during exams will actually help. Sounds like the exam results you get from your current situation will supply you that information.

Either way, make sure you concentrate on nailing those exams. Having to repeat will cost a bundle in time & money, and the better you do, the more you can expect to get in terms of salary and job opportunities after graduation .....

.... i.e. the more you will have to fund your soon-to-be ballooning W.A.S., T.A.S., G.A.S. habits...... and if you doubt me, just ask kiwigeo what his monthly budget (no, no, that's not right, what I mean here is expenditure) for same is

Good luck with those exams & Cheers,
Al.

[Sean Syman]

Cheers guys, I've levelled and dressed the frets and got the action to where I want it, guitar plays fantastically now. It's very much a blues instrument, and very suited to my playing style, I can't put it down for long.

Al; The reason that 'figure' is present in the Sapele is because it's pretty much flatsawn wood. This is the cause of the warping, and not a mistake I'll be making again soon. Also, I know the limitations of exams and being a student, and I haven't had any problems with this (also why this build has taken me so long, working around study).

Cheers, Sean