Advice for a newbie

[Pappy Green]

Hi. I am trying to set up a workshop and have looked at numerous websites etc and its doing my head in. Went to a shop and think I was being offered the Rolls Royce solution. Can anyone give me some advice on the following tools:
Band saw - Jet JWBS-14DX ($850), Carba-Tec 10" Bandsaw ($299) or the 14" ($649), or the HAFECO 14" ($499).
Linisher (belt sander) - Ryobi BDS460 ($259), Carba-Tec 6x9 ($339)
Drum sander - Jet 10 - 20 ($1000), Carba-Tec 400mm wide ($789)
Dust extractor - any advice at all please.
I am not sure how many HP is enough, brand reputation (or if it really matters).
I am in Townsville and have been to see Alan who put me onto the forum (thanks Al)
In the words pf Princess Leia - "help me Obi Wan"

Brett

[rocket]

Hi Pappy , welcome to the forum, if you're builing guitars i'd recomend something like the carbatech 17" bandsaw, you'll need something that size for resawing sides. the carbatech 400 wide drum sander is a pearler, i've got one and i love it.
The carbatech 2 hp, dust extractor with twin inlet is suficient for my small shop. Hope this is helpful.
Cheers,,,, Rod.

[Pappy Green]

Thanks Rod. Not sure what re-sawing sides even means that's how new I am.

[kiwigeo]

Forget the 10" bandsaw...if cash is short then get a 14"...if you can afford it get something bigger.

Jet versus Carbatec....I like the Jet stuff but service from Jet leaves alot to be desired from my experiences.

[Allen]

Welcome to the forum Brett. If you get up to Cairns at all, be sure to stop in for a shed tour. Alan has my contact details if need be.

I've got a 14" bandsaw and it's alright for light duty things, and has even done a little resawing (that's splitting big wood into smaller wood). I've got the Jet 10 -20 and it's a great little machine if space is limited. It's perfect for building small instruments like ukuleles, and I've done at least 10 guitars and 2 Weissenborns on it. Plus run classes and all the students have been pushing wood through it. I've not used the Carbatec drum sander so can't comment.

I've got a Carbatec 8" disk sander / linisher combo. Can't fault it for what it is, and it gets a lot of use. Also have a 1 hp dust extractor that is at the very low end of what is adequate for my needs.. It's going to get an upgrade soon.

[Kim]

Hey Bret, welcome to the ANZLF.

Resaw is when you get a thick billet of wood and then slice it into thinner bits for guitar back and side sets. This is a good way to get cheaper wood but it comes at a cost because it requires largish bandsaw that is set up for the job 'and' you need to understand what you are doing 'and' you need to understand that a billet of wood does not always produce good guitar sets. Sometimes you cut them open and find a big sap vein and that sort of thing eats into any savings you make.

If you are just starting out in guitar building, then my advice is to forget the big saw and just buy a few pre cut guitar sets from a reputable tonewood vendor like Tim Spittle of Australian Tonewoods. Later with a few guitars built, 'then' there may be benifit in setting up to re saw and then you will know more about what is best for you. For now, I would get the 14" bandsaw (10" are just too small) 'and' I would be on the look out for a secondhand one to come up in the local paper. The formula is simple, see what the secondhand saw sold for new and if it is in 'as new' condition, buy it for no more than 2/3 replacement cost..anything with a few knocks and bumps, pay no more than 1/2 new replacement.

As for brands, JET tool are quite good but you will pay more. Service may be crap in SA (seem OK in WA) no idea in QLD, but I will say that a better quality machine will require less use of service anyhow. Carbatec, I have a 6 x 9 sander and it is OK...not great, not crap, just OK, I would rank all there stuff on par with, or maybe a little better than the orange coloured Sherwood stuff that Timbecon sells. But the truth is probably that the only real difference is the colour. Hafco..I don't know cause I don't have any. But from what I understand they sit somewhere below JET and a little above Carbatec/Sherwood.

Anyhow, if I was you, I would just get enough static power tools to get by for now and worry more about getting some good hand tools and lutherie specific stuff like an Ibex fret rule, a set of nut slotting files, crowning files, tang nippers, bridge pin hole reamer and stuff like that. If you get a full blown habit, 'then' start looking at the big shinnies, but right now the AUD is good against the green back so Stwart McDonald and LMI is a good place to spend your money.

Cheers

Kim

[Dominic]

Hey Brett, welcome the addicts club. Here are a few tips I have learnt from my experience setting up a workshop over the past 5 years. Try to go for bigger stuff to begin with. If you start building guitars you will get right into it and you are better off being patient and not rushing out and getting a lot of power tools that you will want to up grade as soon as you develop your skills. It will cost you more in the long run if you do that. I have mostly carbatec stuff and I like them all.
Bandsaw, the CT 14" heavy duty is a nice saw and with decent blades will cut thin slices for backs and sides very cleanly. http://www.carbatec.com.au/14-heavy-dut ... 501_c19205 I sold mine and got a 17" industrial for resawing but I liked the 14.
The CT 6x9 sander would be very useful. I have an older model and it is one of the most used machines in my workshop. Everything from sanding templates to mitring bindings.
Get at least a 2hp dust extractor. And use the largest/shortest runs of pipe you can. Learn about maintaining maximum air flow through your system so you pickup as much dust as possible at the source.
The CT 400mm drum sander is a fine tool. I have had mine for 4 years and never had any problems. It can do a whole top in one pass.
A chop saw is a useful tool for accurately and squarely cutting necks, scarf joints, neck and tail blocks and many other bits. A table saw can be used to accurately and quickly do many tasks and is great for making super accurate jigs (very important). Get a good solid 10" cabinet saw and you can also build all your cupboards and benches then start making new furniture for the house.
Then there are a thousand power and hand tools to buy. Welcome to the ride.
Cheers
Dom

[ozwood]

Hi Brett,

As Usual Kim Has Given some solid and Excellent advice, Which is pretty much what I did and how I started, But to give you the benefit of my experience (mistakes) , I can say I have used Both the Carbatec and Jet sanders , the Jet is much easier to adjust and the feed belt slips less, Not that the Carbatec unit was bad, I just prefer the Jet, I have a cast iron frame 14 inch Bandsaw I bought second hand(ripper) and would'nt want anything smaller , a Makita thicknesser I bought second hand (ripper) and a Cheap drill press ( crap), My next purchase will be a Oscillating spindle sander and a better ( larger linnisher/disc sander , the little ones have no guts, So In short my experience is to save up for the best you can Afford rather than getting it all in one go and Compromising on Quality, all of my planes and spokeshaves are old English made Stanley stuff , which I bought from tool dealers at markets and second hand merchants .same with some of My chisels , I reckon the old stuff is better and holds a better edge I 've Bought somethings twice , cause the cheaper one's just did not cut it.But Kim's dead Right stock up on Stewmac and LMI gear while the Dollars good , But never , ever , ever order more than $1000 in one go, cause as I learned you'll copped it up the A*%E in customs Duty , GST,and Handling chargers from DHL , it could cost you and Extra $400 bucks 0n a $1001.00 order.

Cheers,

Paul.

[Kim]

Absolutely must second what Paul said about not exceeding $1000aud on any international order..that includes the purchase price + any handling fees + freight + insurance. So if you are buying on line be very mindful to split the order if it starts heading toward the 1K mark 'all inclusive'. Yes it will cost you more to ship two separate orders, but it is nothing compare to what you will pay extra on one that goes over 1K in duty, inspection, brokerage fees, etc,etc,etc..and GST on the lot.

Cheers

Kim

[peter.coombe]

Good advice from Kim and Dom.

My experience in buying power tools over the last 17 years is that in the long run it pays to buy quality. If you are serious about this enterprise then don't jump in and buy cheap tools. Later on you will regret it because you will need to replace some if not most of them, and will find yourself on an endless expensive upgrade path. I bought an Inca bandsaw when I started. It cost a fortune for a small bandsaw, but it is dead accurate and gets more use than any other power tool. After 17 years it has not missed a beat and is now looking cheap, and I would be devastated if it ever got nicked because they don't make that sort of quality any more. I expect it will still be going fine when I kick the bucket. I bought a Hafco dust extractor, but ended up replacing that with a 2hp Carbatec with pleated filter. The pleated filter is well worth the extra cost. Other power tools I have are a Woodfast thicknesser/planer, Woodfast small lathe, Hammer bandsaw (for sawing bigger things that are too big for the Inca), Durden Pacemaker table saw. All quality stuff that will never need to be replaced or upgraded. I also have the Carbatec drum sander with works fine but is not the same sort of quality, and a cheap linisher and power hacksaw. Also a small bench drill press and bigger floor standing drill press (the upgrade). I have bought 3 linishers because they break belts that are difficult to replace and I tend to burn out motors. The Durden is Australian made and built like a tank, purchased second hand. Woodfast are excellent, more expensive, but they have a long held and deservably good reputation for quality. I probably should have bought the Woodfast bandsaw instead of the Hammer, but I was not able to get to see a Woodfast saw at the time. They also make a table saw that I would probably buy if I was buying a new one. I love the Woodfast thicknesser/planer, it is heavy, accurate and a big time saver. The lathe is smooth as silk and accurate, and I hardly ever use it, but it is a joy to use whan I do use it. A friend purchased a Hafco lathe when I bought the Woodfast and that is terribly noisy and no where near as accurate as my Woodfast and she hates it.

Although I would agree with Dom that bigger is usually better, just bear in mind that a bigger and more powerful power tool is also more dangerous, so be careful not to buy something that is way out of your comfort zone. Personally I think as far as size is concerned, the primary concern is to get something that does the job safely.

So, if you can't afford quality, wait until you can, or buy quality second hand, or borrow the money if you really need it in a hurry. Don't buy cheap crap. Stay away from Hafco.

Peter

PS: buying quality also applies to hand tools. You can find some gems amongst the vintage hand tools. I have a Stanley no 4 plane that is around 120 years old and that is a real gem.

[Pappy Green]

Wow thanks for the advice everyone. I had some timber packs arrive yesterday and am keen to get a crack on though I will need to deal with the humidity as I was reading in another post last night. I really appreciate your welcome

Brett

[kiwigeo]

As for brands, JET tool are quite good but you will pay more. Service may be crap in SA (seem OK in WA) no idea in QLD, but I will say that a better quality machine will require less use of service anyhow.

Current woes with Jet extend back to head office....if youre after parts its far easier dealing with Jet in the US.

[ozziebluesman]

G'day Brett,

Welcome mate! You will find a very friendly and informative bunch of good people here. There are many very fine builders here with many years of experience that will be able to help you with all your guitar building questions.

Have a good look at the gallery and the archives. Great reading fodder there for a beginner builder.

Have fun.

Cheers

Alan