The future of wood Acoustic guitars

[btjjdb]

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"Originally Posted on:Mon Aug 09, 2010"


I work in the timber industry and am constantly thinking about the sustainability of logging and timber processing practices. As a lot of the highly valued tonewoods become more expensive and rare, what is the future for luthiers.

Are we going to have to experiment with other more readily available timbers?

What happens when the greenies stop all logging everywhere?

We've seen carbon fiber guitars (ie Rainsong & Blackbird Guitars) and plastics used (ie Ovation). Even Martin is now experimenting with HPL (High Pressure Laminated Wood) and Aluminium.

Some guitars even have photographs of figured, valuable timbers embedded under the finish of some guitars.

Are modellers and devices like the Fishman Aura the future?

Are we going to have to redefine what an acoustic guitar sounds like as other timbers or materials become more common in replacing our beloved tonewoods?

Do you think we'll see this shift away from real wood guitars happen in the next 10-20 years?

I'd love to hear some thoughts on this.

Brenden

[kiwigeo]

I think we'll have chipped all our forests before the greenies shut down all logging.

[John Maddison]

Couldn't agree more, Martin!

Brenden - which specific luthiery timber species are you referring to that the 'greenies' will supposedly stop the logging of?

[btjjdb]

John, certainly some of the rosewood species. Some of the more exotic species like Koa, Cocobolo. What about the spruces, maples or mahoganies? Are they in danger of being logged out or supply limited?

In WA the greenies have been trying to stop all logging native forests with timbers like Jarrah, Karri, Marri. I don't know about over east, but what if you could no longer get you Qld Maple, Bunya Pine, Tiger Myrtile, many of the wonderful species available in Australia as well as overseas.

I realize this is a big hypothetical, but are we really in danger of losing these timbers to use in guitars? I realize that luthiers are going to be make better use of a limited resource than other industries.

Certainly the world seems to trying to go green. But many people are jumping on a bandwagon that they know nothing about and politians are bowing to pressure from the greenies in government polices.

Could it mean a blanket ban on all logging and therefore luthier timber species, not only in Australia, but on a global scale?

Just curious about a reality or possibility of luthier timber no longer being available. What are the alternatives?

Brenden

[James Mc]

Quote:
What happens when the greenies stop all logging everywhere?
Well... first we have a huge party! Then, once we are over the hangover, we get stuck back into climate change, sustainable fisheries and a host of other issues.

As for tonewoods, I don't see a time when small companies and individual luthiers won't be able to find enough suitable timber to build guitars with. Between plantation timbers and salvage most of our needs would be covered. Would we have the same range that we have available today, maybe not, but do we really need the huge range of timbers currently available to make a great sounding guitar? We may need to make some compromises, book matched 2 piece tops and backs that require a large log to produce may become less of the norm and 3 or 4 pieces the standard (not likely to hurt the finished product much).

There are also a range of timbers that may be suitable as tonewood (in my book tonewood is the timber used for the soundboard and bracing the rest is just timber). Two of my current projects have nontraditional soundboards (silky oak and mango).

Yes it will make life harder for companies that currently pay next to nothing to chip our forests for paper, they are going to have to start paying a real price for plantation timbers and get serious about recycling, all for the best as far as I'm concerned.

Cheers
James

[kiwigeo]

I'm doing my bit by establishing a privately operated tonewood refuge.

[Dennis Leahy]

kiwigeo wrote:
I'm doing my bit by establishing a privately operated tonewood refuge.

roflmao

-Dennis

[Dennis Leahy]

Brenden,

[opinion]

When there are no trees left large enough for musical instruments, humans will have a lot more problems than musical instrument manufacture.

Yes, we as a species are (or appear to be) pushing a number of species of trees (and many other life forms) to extinction. So, in 20 years, you may not find much, say, Madagascar Rosewood, or Suriname Snakewood, or Mexican Ziricote. But the reality that many many luthiers have proven is that almost any species can be used for backs and sides, and of the preferred species for soundboards, there will be plenty of trees a bit smaller that will make superb 4-piece tops, sonically indistinguishable from the tops from larger trees.

If you're thinking ecologically, especially regarding some terribly over exploited species, I applaud you. And, I believe there are other species that fulfill the same acoustic niche (even if they don't measure up in aesthetics), so we won't be left out in the cold, with no good materials, even if there is a huge shift in environmentalism and more species become protected.

I don't believe there will be a shift away from wood guitars, unless and until someone manufactures a soundboard material that is so extremely and incredibly better (sonically) for making soundboards that all of our wood guitars sound really inferior in comparison. Since early humans hit a hollow log, we've had a love affair with the warm sound of wood vibrating, and it would take something astronomically better to woo us away. And just when someone announces they have done it, you'll see comparisons similar to the comparison between tube amps and solid-state transistor amps. (wood being the analog/tube in the comparison analogy)

[/opinion]

Dennis

[sebastiaan56]

Well as a Greenie who greatly objects to the current practise of clearfelling old growth and shipping it overseas for paper and pulp manufacture Im not at all worried. Part of the reason our tonewoods are so rare is because we buy them back as magazines, direct mailers, $5.00 office paper at Woolies, Readers Digests etc.

Im with Dennis on this. Apart from aesthetics there are plenty of timbers that can make instruments. And there is actually no shortage. A couple of quick examples, the northern hemisphere is ringed in the sub arctic regions by giant spruce forests. It will take a long time to chop them all down. High value timbers such as African Ebony have already been managed so that our grandchildren will see what the trees and raw timbers look like. I dont know the specifics of the Jarrah and Marri you are talking about Brendon but there is an election on and there may be specific campaigns to try to save specific forests for specific areas ecological from being pulped. I think that is fair enough. I do know that the Greens are now the biggest threat to the L/L hegemony and the right wing shock jock community is trying to whip up as much hysteria as possible.

As you note, some timbers are now too rare in their native environments to permit further mass logging. Pity there werent any bluddy greenies around thirty years ago so we could enjoy them now.....

[woodrat]

Quote.......When there are no trees left large enough for musical instruments, humans will have a lot more problems than musical instrument manufacture.

This is very true but in the meantime there are plenty of alternative timbers that can be used and the point raised earlier about multi piece backs and tops is very valid. I saw a while ago on his website Steffan Sobel offering what he called "scantling" guitars with 4 and 5 piece Brazilian Rosewood backs.

http://www.sobellinstruments.com/News20 ... fault.aspx


Also there are some countries that manage their forests so much better than we do here. One example that comes to mind is the way American Cherry is so plentiful in the US because it has been managed well and replanted through the years. It is a fine tonewood but not as "desirable" as the "traditional" woods...yet. Martin has used it as part of a Sustainable Wood series of guitars that I think it still makes.

Regards

John

[Pete Howlett]

I've invested in wood to take me into the next 10 years. I'm afraid it's the luthiers' addiction and is the only way to combat this lunacy.

[sebastiaan56]

Are you and Martin going to have a "mine is bigger than yours" competition Pete? Can I watch?

You make a good point,

[kiwigeo]

sebastiaan56 wrote:
Are you and Martin going to have a "mine is bigger than yours" competition Pete? Can I watch?

You make a good point,

I actually dont know how much Ive got.....I lost track of what Ive got on my racks about 2 years ago. On one rack there are at least 6 parcels that havent yet been opened. No time at the moment with work and on going family issues.

[stopper]

I don't see us running out of Blackwood any time soon. It grows like a weed in this area. It is truly renewable; a fast growning pioneer regenerator that yeilds pretty timber.

Several master tree growers have included it in their woodlots. It also self seeds everywhere.

Just wish more of them were fiddleback.

cheers
Steve

[peter.coombe]

Quote:
I've invested in wood to take me into the next 10 years. I'm afraid it's the luthiers' addiction and is the only way to combat this lunacy.

Me too. Laughing Trouble is I keep finding new woods I like the sound of more, and then the old wood I stocked up with becasue I though I would use lots of it sits there for years until I find another use for it. I need a bigger shed! From the other half - "Hey, you just finished a new shed, what do you want another one for!" Sigh. Isn't the answer to that obvious.

We just bought a 2 acre block of land. Lots of room for a REALLY BIG shed. He he.

[christian]

I dont think we will run out of tonewoods anytime soon but think its a good idea for the large manufacturers to look at alternative materials to build their guitars.We need to move away from the Spruce Rosewood combo and educate the players that there are loads of other timbers that make wonderful guitars. Its a good challenge for us Luthiers to look in our own backyard and see what we could potentially source and use sustainably.
I feel good that all the timbers i use these days are recycled or are being dug up out of swamps . In NZ we have pretty much stopped commercial logging of Native timbers, we have some amazing timbers but they are certainly not sustainable for instance Rimu takes 250yrs to mature and Kauri over a 1000yrs.
I would like to see the large manufacturers contributing to replanting projects too,young trees suck up huge amounts of carbon dioxide for growth and leaves .

Cheers

Christian

[Pete Howlett]

I'd like to make more tenor ukulele from cherry and spruce but it is a very hard sell. However my score of the century samples arrive this week - the never to be repeated Andaman Padauk

[Puff]

This wonderful blue orb will run out of patience with human kind well before it forsakes husbandry of the trees. Let it be.


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