Ahh... bugger

[Aexion]

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"Originally Posted on:"Wed Sep 08""

BLUNT crowning file(unused?) My Guitars are all in pieces with only an acoustic left in tact to play, marketing/designing, waiting on slow release thinners before i can spray, and i just messed up my LP due to an uneven raduis block i just bought from LMI..... now needs 4 new frets installed.

Its hard being your own apprentice i tell you, sigh... Well, im broke with a few new tools on the way should be here in say, two weeks I hope tomorrow brings some light, sorry, rough day

[rocket]

Bad luck Tim, but tomorrow may bring better fortune.
Cheers Rod

[Aexion]

Cheers, had to get it off my chest It really is HARD work sometimes. I think ill spend a few hours on the beach tomorrow with the acoustic, cant lose

Edit. I should add it was a B stock radii block, I should have known better, guess I should have concentrated on what i were doing a little harder, but frets 123 & 4 are now near gone on the bass side Ah well

[Aexion]

On the up side i finished my logo today. What do you guys think?


img~


img~

[joolstacho]

Tim, (at the risk of stating the obvious!) these radius blocks are designed for sanding the fretboard radius, not the frets. -It's the reason you've had a problem. (Probably not the radius block itself).
Remember that the top of frets radius is greater than the fretboard radius, (because the frets have height above the fretboard) -so if the fretboard is (say) 12", you'd need a radius block approx 12 1/16" to do the frets. (depending on the fret height).
If you use a 12" block on the frets of a 12" radius fretboard it's going to sand down the fret ends more than the centres.
I think most people use a (very) flat file or stone to dress the frets, -as long as the frets are properly installed very little dressing should be required.

-Jools

[Bob Connor]

Not so sure about that Jools.

I agree that the radius will change (albeit a tiny amount) but I attended a presentation on flattening/dressing frets with David Collins in the States a couple of years back and he was using the Stewmac radius sanding block (the aluminium one) for just that job.

I've used that method since then with no problems at all. Mind you it only takes a few strokes with 120 grit paper to get them flat so it does require a light touch and an awareness of how much you are removing from what areas of the frets.

You can use a felt pen to colour the fret tops so you know how much material you are removing.

Regards

[Kim]

Aexion wrote:

BLUNT crowning file(unused?) and i just messed up my LP due to an uneven raduis block i just bought from LMI..... now needs 4 new frets installed

From the image, it looks like the radius block you have is more acute than the radius of the fretboard. Where did you measure from? It matters because the fretboard my be compound moving from <10" at the nut to greater than 20" at the 22nd and this may be your problem.

On another note. Even if you had stopped sanding where the frets in the image are at their tallest, they are still far too low and would need pulling out for a re-fretting anyhow. Remember the string only needs to bridge the frets to make the note. There is no rule saying that the string must also press against the wood of the fretboard between the frets while this is going on. In fact in most cases that is something you should avoid. Low action is one thing, frets too low is another altogether.

Nice logo that first one but it would be hell to cut from shell.

By the way, the new crowning file is probably OK it just needs cleaning. They will fill with the soft nickle of fretwire in a few wipes unless you keep them waxed.

Cheers

Kim

[Aexion]

Ok, thanks! Alot to swallow but i think i better take her in for a re-fret, im not that confident yet.

Usually i use a straight file but read online the radius block was best. Never had a problem till now.

Is anybody near batemans bay able to re-fret for me? (actually, ive been meaning to visit peter in Bega, good excuse) id really like to watch someone do the job in person, online is proving to be 99% wrong(sside from ANZLF, i love this place)

Oh, those logos are poster prints, t-shirts, stickers. I wont be making guitars for a while yet, only basic repairs and wiring, but i have a design coming along for my future axe building;).

Thanks again, really appreciate your kind help:)

[Nick]

Just looking at your picture Tim I'm guessing you have one of two things going on either A: the neck wasn't flat/straight/ with a small relief before you started leveling (maybe too much relief in the neck), you dont show middle frets so if that was the case, I'm picking they still have some height to them which these ones don't! or B: You've got too over zealous with the radius block. A little tip I picked up and use, is to run a permanent marker down each of the crown of all the frets before going near them with any abrasive, you then can see what you are removing. What you are aiming for is a thin even line of silver down the middle of the black marker line. Some silver lines will be/ might be wider, that's just one of the idiosyncracies of fret installations (slightly varying heights) but it shouldn't be a huge difference.
If you aren't confident enough to do a refret to the level you want or expect, look around for an old clunker guitar (i.e cheap!) either acoustic of electric & practice on that, do it, if it doesn't work out right rip the frets out & start again. That way you aren't ruining a good player or expensive guitar.

[vandenboom]

Kim wrote:

By the way, the new crowning file is probably OK it just needs cleaning. They will fill with the soft nickle of fretwire in a few wipes unless you keep them waxed.

Kim - I haven't read this before. I certainly clean the file after every couple of passes, but use a finer wire brush. Can you please explain the waxing trick?
thanks. Frank.

[Aexion]

Nick O wrote:

Just looking at your picture Tim I'm guessing you have one of two things going on ....
.....
a refret to the level you want or expect, look around for an old clunker guitar (i.e cheap!) either acoustic of electric & practice on that, do it, if it doesn't work out right rip the frets out & start again. That way you aren't ruining a good player or expensive guitar.

I straightened with a 12" notched straight, but i may use the long 18" non notched from now on, and i also colored the frets.

What really ticked my noggen was as soon as i saw the disaster, i grabed the 18" straight and it looked as though it had back bow

I just telling myself it looks that way because of the mess up, but i swear the wood of the neck had some SLIGHT backbow. Turned my head inside out!

As for the re-fret, i am still in progress of making a fret bender but there are alot of blanks about certain things, and i need this bad boy back in action, it has a kickass 21 tone Jimmy page harness in her, and.... i just miss it already.

Kim,

No, the crowning file was also a cheap tool and on closer inspection, i can see its not that good, a new diamond double sided file in the mail nowl

[Kim]

To be honest with you Frank I will be springing the cash to upgrade to diamond files going forward simply because 'nothing' seems satisfactory when it comes to cleaning toothed fret files. Like you I brush every few strokes, the wax just helps the grit come away a bit easier tis all. I have used candle wax and it helps but can get a bit messy. I have also used silicone free paste wax (same as you use on tablesaw tops etc) and that work OK to. I put a bit on, wipe off the excess, and into it.

One thing I have thought of doing but have never gotten around to trying out is to wax and dip... mmmmm sounds delicious. This would require wax, work, and then a quick dip in shellite/naphtha to instantly melt the wax and release the grit. Then do it again, wax, work and dip.....let me know how you get on, I'm off to stewmac for some diamonds

Cheers

Kim

[liam_fnq]

I've got a cheap stew mac fret crowning file. Works a treat. Provided that I wrap 180grit around it and use that to cut. I've never even given it a go with the file itself. In fact, if I had some way of cutting the fret profile in female onto the edge of a piece of thin hard wood I'd have done that instead.
_________________
Cheers, Liam.

[Aexion]

Thanks to a few members here, that scared feeling has left my stomach, peter is going to let me watch, or watch me re-fret and craig is coming to visit next time he is in the area to say hi

I can sleep easy tonight, any recomendations for fret wire is welcome, i need to grab some med/large, ALS looks ok, nickle percentage and all


PS oh kim, its not a compound neck scale but i think you are right about it being too acute, i went on assuming regular LP custom specs but its a zac wylde copy, lesson learned

[Kim]

Aexion wrote:

PS oh kim, its not a compound neck scale but i think you are right about it being too acute, i went on assuming regular LP custom specs but its a zac wylde copy, lesson learned

Tim,

When I say compound, I am not suggesting any alteration to the scale such as fanned frets etc, I am talking about the actual 'radius' of the FB, the way in which it curves in cross section...many, in fact most factory and custom lecies have some sort of compound going on, this is to say that they can start out at a 7.5" radius at the nut and gradually flatten out to more than 20" radius by the time the FB joins the body. This is done to facilitate string bends up the neck and barring and single finger chords toward the nut.

Cheers

Kim

[Aexion]

Yeah, were on the same level, and your right, the radius does slowly increase as you move up the neck, thanks Kim, i didn't notice till now to be honest.

I have some radius measuring tools from s-macs coming as well so that will make life easier:)

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