Bridge placement

[btjjdb]

Hi All,

I'm working on an idea on my dinky strat. I want to turn it into a solid body acoustic.
img~

I was wondering if you guys might be able to suggest how I go about placing the bridge in the right spot.

It was all black paint before, but I sanded the back and front and left the sides black. I don't what type of wood it is, but I don;t mind the look of it anyway.

Look forward to hearing your suggestions.

regards

Brenden

[kiwigeo]

You want to turn a solid body electric into a solid body acoustic????

Um I could be getting your intentions totally wrong but assuming I understand you correctly I'd offer the following comments:

1. first question id ask is have you been drinking or taking illicit drugs of any sort?
2. twanging the strings on an electric generally produces a horrible featureless stringy sound thats not very loud. Whacking an acoustic bridge on an electric solid body isn't going to change that.
3. on a solid body electric its the pickup and electronics creating 99% of the sound. others will argue on this one but I think compared to the latter the wood making up the instrument contributes b***er all to the tone of the instrument.
4. a solid body acoustic........why?

Cheers Martin
_________________
One can never have enough tonewood

[Puff]

Was holding tongue but since Martin ....
Solid body and acoustic are Catholic and Bhuddist, hole and heap, empty and full, wet and dry.
You could of course put in a piezo usb and masquerade as acoustic but.
Pickups, whether electro magnetic or piezo are to an extent microphonic and will read vibration from strings, vibrating/resonating surfaces and bodies.
Back to point - scale length and adjustments for scale length for steel string intonation are pretty well documented via google.

Last edited by Puff on Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

[btjjdb]

NO!!!!....I am not on drugs or drunk......I have been watching and joining in the discussions and enjoy what you guys are doing here, but when I asked for some advice, I didn't expect to be ridiculed. I have carpal tunnel that makes playing my acoustic difficult and painful. I play at church every week.

There are a number of guitars that are solidbody acoustics and have been quite successful.
img~

[Puff]

Brendan -please there was no ridicule. The pics you post are not solid body acoustics. In one shape or form they are all electric guitars - a couple may be "hollow body"but the guts of it seems to be they are through-necks with varying amounts of shape added.

[liam_fnq]

I wouldn't call any of those solid bodied. some are hollow, some semi hollow and some so hollow they're almost disappearing.

solid body acoustic. oxymoron.

if you've got difficulty with acoustic strings/tension why not try light gauge strings.
_________________
Cheers, Liam.





Cairns Loon.

[Puff]

You calling Meatloaf a moron? - what's oxy? Twisted Evil

[Kim]

Measure from the centre of the 12th fret to the face of the nut, right where the strings first make contact as they come up the neck from the bridge. That is half your scale length. Use that same measurement, plus around 2mm intonation at the 6th string to position the saddle and this will have you in the ball park. Using the endpin, you can make a jig like a tail piece to hold the bridge in place. String it and check the intonation, once your happy, mark it and glue the sucker on.

P.S. As for the Carpel Tunnel, you need to bite the bullet and have the op instead of trying to find work arounds cause it is not going to go away and it will only get worse until you suck it up and go under.

Cheers

Kim
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Pull me Finga

Last edited by Kim on Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:40 pm; edited 3 times in total

[Puff]

Well moderated thank you Kim.

[btjjdb]

I already use the lightest acoustic strings I can get. I love playing the acoustic guitar. I've found that the scale length, body thickness and other factors affect how much pain I'm in and how much feeling I lose in my hands. I've bought and sold more guitar than I care to admit to try to find the best compromise in ergonomics for me. I love my Mini Maton's scale length, but the size of the body presses on my strumming arm and I lose feeling in it. My current solution is using my Yamaha FGX 720SCA, capoed 2nd fret and detuned back to E. Not prefect but better. I've read that smaller fretboard radii can help with playing, but most acoustics are 12-16", I'd like to try something around 9-10".

Hence the reason for the experiment. If I can get a passable tone with what I propose, then I'd like to move on to trying to build shorter scale necks and different neck shapes and possibly a small body stage acoustic, like Bob and few others have tried here. There are some guys on this forum doing some very creative and interesting things with thier designs.

On a thread I started a while ago about Acoustic pickups, I noted some one said they had used cheap Artec pickups with a high end preamp and got great tone and that's what I'm hoping to do in this instance.

I spoke to the Dr the other day and he's not even convinced it is Carpal Tunnel I have. The Dr's are useless in small towns, they just want to get u in and out as soon as possible.

Sorry to ramble, but I'm getting desparate to continue playing, but don;t want to buy anymore guitars, I'd rather build something and work at ti until I get what I need.

Brenden

[Puff]

Kim's advice on the bridge placement and a piezo usb could go where you are looking. Artec would come in somewhere about $130 and so would a few others. It won't be a solid body acoustic - but that's all semantics in the long run. Good fortune.
Ps -I wouldn't make broad brush comments like that about doctors in small towns - a number of doctors play and make musical instruments; and some of them might go to church every now and again.

Last edited by Puff on Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

[jeffhigh]

For positioning, use the stewmac fret calculator,
http://www.stewmac.com/FretCalculator
measure nut to 12th fret centre double that and you have the scale length
Plug that in and choose acoustic from the bridge options.

[Kim]

Brendan,

I work with at least 1/2 a dozen blokes who have had CT, had the op, and rcovered. That is a 100% success rate. There are some pretty straight forward test that will determine if you have CT. You 'need' to stop buggerizing around and go get u'self a referral to a surgeon with experience in CT. They will know straight up if you have it or not because most see shitloads of people every week with it.

If you do have CT, just get the op done. Sure it hurts and yes it takes a while to get thinks back, but at least you get things back. Leave it go and keep hunting for work arounds like you are now and you will loose muscle strength and flexibility so the road back will only get longer and further from the use you once had.

Suck it up princess, you need the knife. Wink

Cheers

Kim
_________________
ĆϾϿƆ
_(ӧ) ∩
_ڔ ڔ
Pull me Finga

[kiwigeo]

btjjdb wrote:
NO!!!!....I am not on drugs or drunk......I have been watching and joining in the discussions and enjoy what you guys are doing here, but when I asked for some advice, I didn't expect to be ridiculed. I have carpal tunnel that makes playing my acoustic difficult and painful. I play at church every week.

My comments were not intended to ridicule anybody but if they came across as such then I apologize. The question about drinking and drugs wasn't a serious one...I forgot to add the smiley to make that clear.

That said, your initial post was a bit ambiguous and I did qualify my response by saying that I was assuming that I was comprehending your questions correctly...which I obviously wasn't.

Regards Martin
_________________
One can never have enough tonewood

[kiwigeo]

btjjdb wrote:


I spoke to the Dr the other day and he's not even convinced it is Carpal Tunnel I have. The Dr's are useless in small towns, they just want to get u in and out as soon as possible.

GP's are just that...... General Practitioners. They know a little bit about everything but they're generally not experts in many fields. If you're not happy with your GP's diagnosis then either get a second opinion or demand to see a specialist.
_________________
One can never have enough tonewood

[btjjdb]

No problem Martin. I was taken back a bit by the initial comments.

Not much choice in Dr's here unfortunately. My Dr should have retired 5 years ago, but I can get in to see him, whereas the other Dr's in town I think December is the earliest appointment.

A mate of mine had CTS surgery done and was off work for 2 weeks. If I need both hands done thats 1 month off work. We got one week off end of next week and 3 weeks off at xmas. The CTS also only affect me when playing the guitar, which is a piss off Smile

regards

Brenden

[kiwigeo]

I actually suffer from intermittant CTS myself and on one occasion while working offshore in Bass Strait had to sleep with socks over my hands to control the pain (heat seems to help). Anyway it is a painful condition and I hope you get it sorted.
_________________
One can never have enough tonewood

[Lillian]

Brenden, a gent I work with has the same issues. He's found that swimming helps his shoulders stay strong and flexible, which in turn helps him play longer before the pain sets in. He also warms up on his silent guitar for about an hour before picking up his Guild. The silent guitar has a smaller/thinner profile all the way around, doesn't hurt his hands and allows him to play in a more comfortable position. I think he might be pinching a nerve in his shoulder/neck when he plays his acoustics that is adding to his hand/wrist issues.

If you find a neck profile that works for you, you might want to think about making your own version of a silent guitar or a thin bodied acoustic.

Just food for thought.

[btjjdb]

Lillian,

Making my own silent/electro acoustic guitar from my dinky strat is exactly what I'm trying to do.


I just measured from inside the nut to the centre of the 12th fret and it is 322mm. So I'm assuming this means my guitar has a 644mm scale length.

That StewMac Calculator says:

Bridge placement for 644 mm scale Printable

Distance from the fretboard edge of the nut to the break-angle of the string at the peak of the saddle.

•Treble "E" 646.245 mm (±0.5mm)

•Bass "E" 649.419 mm (±0.5mm)

Is the break angle the top of the saddle where the string passes over? I've got a couple of plastic compensated saddles.

regards

Brenden

[Bob Connor]

I have one friend here in Geelong who has had their CTS cured with steroid injections so get a second opinion before you believe that the knife is the only course of action.
_________________
Bob, Geelong
_______________________________________

If Becks are a sponsor next year I guess we'll just have to give East Augusta a miss.

[kiwigeo]

btjjdb wrote:


Is the break angle the top of the saddle where the string passes over? I've got a couple of plastic compensated saddles.

Correct on the break point on the saddle.

I'd be careful using those plastic compensated saddles.....I assume they're off an acoustic bridge. I cant give you exact figures but I'd dare say the compensation on an electric instrument like the one you've got there is going to be slightly different from an acoustic.....differences in scale length, string guage etc. If you can go for a bone saddle.....the instrument will sound alot better than with a plastic saddle.
_________________
One can never have enough tonewood

[sampson]

Hi Brenden

I can completely understand your frustration with a possible carpal tunnel syndrome and the conventional approach to treatment. I normally wouldn't give medical advise over a forum but Ive seen good and bad outcomes to both surgery and other forms of treatment. There is a something that I encourage you to seek and that's a definitive diagnosis.

There are syndromes that can mimic CTS that have a far better outcome due to manual treatment protocols and don't require surgery. The western medical society on numerous occasions get it a bit wrong. As with all different forms of medical practitioners there are good and bad.

There's a Osteopathic clinic in Busselton that at least will give you the time of day, a diagnosis and actually treat you. They aren't cheap thanks to the governments reluctance to allow Osteopaths medicare access but as I said they at least care.
If you are interested PM me and I can give you their contact details.
Cheers Todd

[ozziebluesman]

G'day Brenden,

Five years ago I had a similar issue with tendonitis in my left elbow. At its worst I could not lift a full cup of coffee without extreme pain. Also I was playing in a blues band on a regular basis and the only way I could play through a gig was with an arm band straped on the arm below the elbow. I teach music for a living so playing guitar is my life. A very painfull time of life!

I found a specialist and he suggested a steriod shot. I agreed and after a few weeks the elbow had improved heaps to a point where I thought I may be able to manage the condition. That was about the time when I started playing lap style slide guitar. The tone bar is heavy and using my left hand holding and playing slide on the lap guitar was the start of my recovery. Sort of like do weights with the left arm and using the arm the opposite way to when playing a guitar.

My elbow will never be the same again because I am middle aged and it fatigue's after playing for a few hours, but, it is at a point now where I can manage the condition with no pain.

So as most have suggested here, make a big effort and see a specialist.

Cheers

Alan
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"Play to express, not to impress"

Alan R Hamley

[Dennis Leahy]

I have not had carpal tunnel syndrome, nor have I researched it, and I have no idea if there is any way to do therapy to alleviate it without surgery.

That said, some of the ergonomic things that can be done to create a true acoustic guitar with the least amount of strain on the carpal area:

fanned frets (also called multi-scale fingerboard)

Torzol Twist: an ergonomically twisted fingerboard
img~
Jerome Little, Little Guitar Works, bass


Here is another guitar with a Torzal Twist:
img~
Mike Ziegler's latest project: 6-string electric with Torzal Twist

Mike documented how his did it on a thread on The Luthier Community: http://www.luthiercom.org/phpBB3/viewto ... =22&t=2187 (free luthier forum site, but no guest access, so sign up for free membership to gain access to the site)

When I saw these twisted fingerboards before, I had assumed that a CNC and programming would be required, but Mike figured out a way that any of us could do in a shop with a simple router. I'm not sure about the patent stuff surrounding making one for yourself or several to sell, but I think there is one of these in my future. Like fanned frets, the twist probably takes a little bit of getting used to it, and after that, you won't notice it.

Dennis
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Another damn Yank!

[Taffy Evans]

While we are talking about different guitars, have you considered or tried any of the small travel guitars, the Martin Backpacker, for instance. Small and a bit quiet for church but I've put pickups in these over the years. Good luck.
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Taff