Home made plane - blades

vandenboom · Post by **vandenboom** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:06 pm

Before I spend almost AUD$250 on the Ibex palm plane for my planed archtop build, I want to try and make my own.
Here is an OLF tutorial on one approach if you are interested...
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/view ... 02&t=13157"

I need to buy a blade first so that I know what I am working to. CARBATEC did not have the Ibex Palm blade. Does anyone know of a local supplier for Ibex blades, or able to suggest something else suitable. The Ibex Palm plane is 40 mm wide, so I'd like somthing in that ball park. eg. 32- 38mm wide blade.
Thanks. Frank.

sebastiaan56 · Post by **sebastiaan56** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:33 pm

PM Thumbsucker (Helmut) off the UBeaut forum. I just got some off him and they are D2 steel and bloody beautiful. He supplies plans to go with the blades. Fast service, great price, what more can I say.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=100029

I made a block plane I'll post some photos tomorrow when it is light.

vandenboom · Post by **vandenboom** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:22 pm

Thanks Sebastian - just what I'm looking for. I could not connect to that link. Would you mind checking it.
Frank.

J.F. Custom · Post by **J.F. Custom** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 7:46 pm

Hi Frank,

I'm a little confused though I confess - I haven't read the tutorial you linked to fully.

The Ibex Palm Plane has a curved sole, front to back and side to side that enables you to carve with it - ideal for your archtop project. The tutorial looks as though it is making flat soled planes? Apologies if I am mistaken.

That said, there is no reason you could not make your own curved sole plane anyway. I'm not aware of anyone selling the Ibex Palm Plane in Australia anymore. Basically due to its expense and the small demand here. You can get a replacement blade from Stewmac here :

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Plane ... lanes.html

However I'm not sure where you had seen the blade listed at about 38mm in width. They are only 28mm in width - far more than the thumb planes of same make, but short of your assumption. Check the specs here :

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Plane ... lanes.html

The other option you could consider is the Lee Valley made palm planes. Not quite as large as the Ibex Palm but still larger than the finger planes. They are basic in build quality (no frills) but good in their basics - well cast and finished. They are also considerably cheaper. I have one of the curved sole models. Alternatively you could just purchase the replacement curved blade (25mm or so in width) for making your own. You can buy them direct from here:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx ... at=1,41182

or get them locally from Carba-Tec here (including replacement blades) :

http://www.carbatec.com.au/handplanes/l ... alm-planes

Finally you could also opt for a wider blade as you originally considered but you are unlikely to find one with a curved sole. This would then necessitate you putting the curve into a flat blade which is doable but you'd want to have some basic skill in doing so prior as it can be tricky. You certainly don't want to buy a good flat blade and ruin the temper by overheating it trying to grind to your desired shape. I'll stop rambling now - just some options for you. In any case good luck and if you make your own, post us all a picture or two.

Cheers,

Jeremy.

jeffhigh · Post by **jeffhigh** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:08 pm

I just bought a couple of these.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... %26otn%3D4

one of which I will reprofile to a curved base.
Have'nt got them yet but only $12.

J.F. Custom · Post by **J.F. Custom** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:38 pm

Hi Jeff,

What's amazing about these planes is that I don't know how anyone can make them for that price and be making a profit - I guess the same could be said for a lot of products ex China/India. That's it for good aspects really. Sorry to be such a downer.

I have had a couple of these for years. Found them at an export trade show overseas. To be very straight forward, they aren't great. They are not particularly accurately made, the blades are very thin and don't hold an edge and the adjustments and mechanism leave a lot to be desired. The brass of course tarnishes too. But then, what exactly could be expected from so cheap a product?

They can be 'tweaked' though and even through their flaws, I still very occasionally reach for one for the odd small job. They are after all a handy size. When set and sharp, they cut small jobs effectively - such as removing a sharp corner/chamfering a bevel. I would not however be using them for gouging/carving hard woods - you will be very frustrated very quickly.

I'd go a decent blade such as the Lee Valley replacement I mentioned above and make my own plane over trying to use any of these for an archtop. Hope this doesn't sound condescending and you are likely to still find a use for them. They are still a bargain - you couldn't make one yourself for that price.

Cheers,

Jeremy.

Localele · Post by **Localele** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:25 am

You could also contact Terry at www.hntgordon.com.au who will sell you a blade from one of his sizes or possibly trim one to a special width.He is also making Hollows and Rounds so you may be able to use one of his Round profiles.

James Mc · Post by **James Mc** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:59 am

I picked up one of these little mujingfang planes on ebay for about $20 with postage. Hard to say a bad thing about it and well worth the few extra bucks more than you would pay for brass Indian made one. It is so good that I'm thinking about buying some of the full size ones.

Lillian · Post by **Lillian** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:46 pm

I am not a fan of Ibex. I bought one thinking that since everyone talks about them that they must be all that. I can't say I like the way it sits in my hand. It feels like its going to pop out of my fingers because of the shape.

I picked up another small one on eBay that had straight sides and a longer blade. Love it. Found out that it came from St. James Bay Tool Co. Odd name considering they are in Arizona. But I have found their prices reasonable and the quality to be worth the price. You might want to check out their site. Its a bit clunky, but they will answer any questions you have. They carry full sized planes as well as luthiery intended ones.

http://www.stjamesbaytoolco.com/

sebastiaan56 · Post by **sebastiaan56** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:53 pm

Try that link again, works for me. You may need to get a login but its not a bad thing all sorts of woody stuff goes on there. I'll PM you Helmuts email.

Munjingfiang planes get good reviews and they are great value for money. Carbatec carries them. I personally think HNT Gordon and Lee Valley and the likes are over priced for CNC cut timber.

Making them is more fun. I'll try and upload one from the iPhone, the boss has the camera.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:30 pm

I know it doesn't help you now Frank, but I bought this book and it is a really good book. I got it with the intention of making all my own but this damn guitar bug bit me and I'm building them with commercial tools instead of making the beautiful hand tools

Oh well, maybe one day (I've got to stop dreaming up gutar builds) & it'll be a good way of getting all my scrap offcuts used up.

vandenboom · Post by **vandenboom** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:54 pm

J.F. Custom wrote:Hi Frank,

I'm a little confused though I confess......

Thanks Jeremy. Fair comment. The problem here is I am ignorant on a couple of fronts. I don't know much about planes. I only make occasional use of Stanley #60 and Stanley #4. I have never seen one with a curved soul let alone experience use of one. And I have not experimented with carving a violin or archtop type top.

I'm not questioning the value of the Ibex plane - there is plenty of evidence it will do the job. But I am not in a position to buy everything useful guitar building thing I see and tend to look for other ways to achieve the same end to keep the spending down. Over the past year, I have seen quite a few comments to the effect that making small planes is not very hard, so that's why I thought I'd give this a go first. I thought a flat soled plane would be easier to tackle first.

I was aware I could get the blades from Stewmac but, one of the things I love about this forum, is that opens local suppliers for lots of things and I would prefer to buy locally if I can. Hence the question about local Ibex suppliers.

Thanks for clearing up the actual widths of the Ibex blades - I was just guesstimating and should have looked it up.
The Lee-Valley palm plane at US$47 is looking pretty attractive though. I think I would make a better plane if I had actually experienced the use of something resembling what I end up making, if that makes any sense.

Thanks once again for taking the time to provide all this detail in the reply.
Frank

Deano · Post by **Deano** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:25 pm

http://www.diefenbacher.com/luthier.htm

Does this help at all? I know they have blades for cheap.

Deano

vandenboom · Post by **vandenboom** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:48 pm

Deano wrote:http://www.diefenbacher.com/luthier.htm
Does this help at all? I know they have blades for cheap.
Deano

Thanks Deano - I am going to check out some of the local options first, although I am looking at this site for a gouge that was suggested another thread. Frank.

J.F. Custom · Post by **J.F. Custom** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:36 pm

vandenboom wrote:...Thanks once again for taking the time to provide all this detail in the reply... Frank

No problem Frank - I hope some of it was useful.

I'm sure you would be able to make a beautiful plane if you put your mind to it. Budget considered, I would be looking at the Lee Valley option - either complete or just the blade. Mind you, if you were thinking of buying from Lee Valley - if it were the only item you were purchasing, the money saved by going direct I feel would likely be lost in postage costs. I'd probably go Carba-Tec unless you planned a larger order. At least seeing a curved sole plane may help you get your head around constructing one.

Yes making a flat bottom plane would be easier first up and small palm planes are very useful tools to have for all manner of jobs anyway. You will just require the convex sole plane for carving an archtop.

With regards to a limited budget to purchase all the luthiers tools you want, I think we can all relate to that!

except possibly Martin...

Good luck with whatever you choose,

Jeremy.

rocket · Post by **rocket** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:48 pm

Frank,,, If you decide to go down the make your own palm plane road, you could make quite a nice blade out of a suitably sized file, you just need to be careful not to bun it when grinding it to shape.
Cheers mate.

vandenboom · Post by **vandenboom** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:14 pm

J.F. Custom wrote:Mind you, if you were thinking of buying from Lee Valley - if it were the only item you were purchasing, the money saved by going direct I feel would likely be lost in postage costs. I'd probably go Carba-Tec unless you planned a larger order. At least seeing a curved sole plane may help you get your head around constructing one.
Jeremy.

I agree with that. Carbatec have them for around $75 - that I can justify. But I don't have any small planes and still plan to experiment with making some of these, hence the local sources of blades suggested by others will be great. I see clips of people using them for shaving braces, and it just looks more sensible in some cases than my Stanley #60 or chisels.
Thanks everyone.
Frank

sebastiaan56 · Post by **sebastiaan56** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:23 am

Hi Frank,

Ive been caught up in this plane making distraction for a little while now and had a couple more thoughts.

The blade does not have to be curved, just the grind of the blade. It takes a bit of patience but if you keep the blade cool its no real hassle. The radius of the grind is the same as the radius on the bottom of the plane. An old chisel blade makes an acceptable plane as well.

Im planning a rabbeting plane made from an old chisel and a OWT for cutting binding ledges from an old Allen key. Derek Cohen made a beauty, see here http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTo ... Tooth.html His site is an absolute mine of information on all aspects of hand tools.

vandenboom · Post by **vandenboom** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:17 pm

sebastiaan56 wrote:Ive been caught up in this plane making distraction for a little while now and

distraction...good choice of word. I could spend all my hobby time going down these different rabbit holes, exploring all these distractions, and never make a single guitar if I'm not careful!!
Great web site - thanks. Frank.

Dominic · Post by **Dominic** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:16 pm

If anyone has watched Bob Bs making an archtop DVD they will know that Bob prefers a small wooden palm plane he made years ago using a bit of a paint scraper for a blade for most of the hogging off of wood. Seeing him rip through carving a top with it is awe inspiring.

http://www.woodworksupplies.com.au These guys now carry a big range of good blades for most planes and spoke shaves according to the latest Aust Wood Review mag.
Dom

vandenboom · Post by **vandenboom** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:17 pm

Thanks Dominic - good to become aware of another supplier around Melbourne. Via their site, I discovered the following - good level detail and diagrams on making your own wooden hand plane.

http://www.crfinefurniture.com/1pages/s ... plane.html

Thanks. Frank.

Lillian · Post by **Lillian** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:11 pm

Frank, if you are planning on going with a LV Little Victor, this modification might be worth the effort.

If not, it might be food for thought on your build. Holding on to the little planes can be difficult, especially if you have issues with your hands.

vandenboom · Post by **vandenboom** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:20 pm

Lillian - I am actually going for the Curved 'Squirrel' Block Plane, as I will need the curve - this is the closer to the Ibex palm plane.
But is neat to see what the guy did with the Little Victor.
I wondered if there was a way of retaining the screw for blade depth control and integrating the more comfortable palm rest around it somehow. Don't know till I see one.
Thanks. Frank.

vandenboom · Post by **vandenboom** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:30 pm

I bought this small Lee Valley plane - $75 from Carbatec.
Sole is curved with a 1-1/2" radius side to side and a 12" radius front to back. 3-3/8" long at the sole and 1-3/8" wide with a 1" blade width.
I had a bit of a play on some soft wood and it felt good. How it goes on a full maple back remains to be seen.
The next challenge involves learning how to sharpen the blade!!
I also bought the book on making wooden hand planes that Nick O suggested above, and have order a small blade from Sebastiaan's contact (Helmut) above. So thanks everyone for your contributions.
btw, it's considerably cheaper buying the book directly from the author (http://davidfinck.com/index.htm) than through amazon. Frank

Australian/New Zealand Luthiers Forum

Home made plane - blades

Home made plane - blades

plane blades

Who is online