Craig, did you make that violin in the first picture? Do you play violin?
Ron
12 string finished
Cheers Rod, Hesh ,Kim and Ron,
No Ron , I didn't build the fiddle . I do repair them and rehair bows etc. I play the violin very very,,,,,,,,,,,,,very badly
The violin in the picture was my attempt at being a little arty farty with the camera
Rod , I'll see if I can post a pic of the bracing. Right now ,I've got to head off to Tamworth to the Dentists ( YEEEOWWW )
No Ron , I didn't build the fiddle . I do repair them and rehair bows etc. I play the violin very very,,,,,,,,,,,,,very badly
The violin in the picture was my attempt at being a little arty farty with the camera
Rod , I'll see if I can post a pic of the bracing. Right now ,I've got to head off to Tamworth to the Dentists ( YEEEOWWW )
Sorry Lillian , I missed you before. Thanks for the compliment . Yes it sounds good to me , but I'm not an authority on 12 stringers ,having only played one occassionally .
I called into the Tamworth music shop today and played some others to compare and am quite happy with my effort. It's early days as yet and I haven't even done the saddle intonation . Seems to have enough bass and a good sustaining treble.
I also bought a beautiful English Hiscox case for it whilst at the store . Fantastic cases and well insulated.
Rod , This bracing setup is fairly close to a Taylor except for my A Frame bracing near the headblock
It's an Englemann top. I may thin out some braces yet , I'll see how it opens up.Hope that helps Rod
I called into the Tamworth music shop today and played some others to compare and am quite happy with my effort. It's early days as yet and I haven't even done the saddle intonation . Seems to have enough bass and a good sustaining treble.
I also bought a beautiful English Hiscox case for it whilst at the store . Fantastic cases and well insulated.
Rod , This bracing setup is fairly close to a Taylor except for my A Frame bracing near the headblock
It's an Englemann top. I may thin out some braces yet , I'll see how it opens up.Hope that helps Rod
Last edited by Craig on Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Cheers again Paul,
( Paul gives me 'Hayseed' because I live in the bush )
I figured the soundport to also be a bit of a peep hole ,so was determined to make it interesting. I had some of that blonde Tas. Sassafras and some walnut , so made the Fox liners and side braces with it to complement the two tone wood colour of the Myrtle.The Sassafrass has some nice flame about it too
( Paul gives me 'Hayseed' because I live in the bush
)I figured the soundport to also be a bit of a peep hole ,so was determined to make it interesting. I had some of that blonde Tas. Sassafras and some walnut , so made the Fox liners and side braces with it to complement the two tone wood colour of the Myrtle.The Sassafrass has some nice flame about it too
Last edited by Craig on Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Transverse cops the load from the neck and shares that strain to the sides . If it wasn't let in to the sides , the soundboard alone would have to cope with that strain .
There is another way : by fixing 2 carbon fibre rods either side of the headblock and attaching these angled rods to the waist area of the sides. Called the flying buttress design . It takes all the strain of the neck off the soundboard and no need for a transverse at all . I'm going to try that next. Having a soundboard free of the neck stress, opens up more usable soundboard area . Think grand piano as opposed to upright piano .
There is another train of thought that sound boards needn't be large : Think small high throw speakers .These builders only concern themselves with the lower bout as the sound producer and utilize the upper bout to one job only : support the neck joint . Greg Smallman's guitars are a good example.
I'll give the grand piano concept a try anyway and see what happens . My plan also calls for a tailpiece design to remove that 160 odd pound of string pull that a glued on bridge creates. I won't go into the bridge down bearing thing at the moment , , it's a big subject, but I think I have that covered .
There is another way : by fixing 2 carbon fibre rods either side of the headblock and attaching these angled rods to the waist area of the sides. Called the flying buttress design . It takes all the strain of the neck off the soundboard and no need for a transverse at all . I'm going to try that next. Having a soundboard free of the neck stress, opens up more usable soundboard area . Think grand piano as opposed to upright piano .
There is another train of thought that sound boards needn't be large : Think small high throw speakers .These builders only concern themselves with the lower bout as the sound producer and utilize the upper bout to one job only : support the neck joint . Greg Smallman's guitars are a good example.
I'll give the grand piano concept a try anyway and see what happens . My plan also calls for a tailpiece design to remove that 160 odd pound of string pull that a glued on bridge creates. I won't go into the bridge down bearing thing at the moment , , it's a big subject, but I think I have that covered .
Last edited by Craig on Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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matthew
- Blackwood
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I suppose that's the tradeoff for using a flat soundboard with no inherent strength. I didn't think of that before. I had assumed that the whole of the soundboard on a guitar is free to vibrate, not just the lower part.
Hmmm. What would happen if you increased the width of the neck block substantially so that more of the structural strength is spread across the ribs?
On a VSO, both the upper and lower bouts vibrate as speaker cones, and these are connected by one longitudinal bar running under the bass side of the bridge. But for them to vibrate freely, the complication is in the thicknessing of the plate and the shape of the recurve.
Hmmm. What would happen if you increased the width of the neck block substantially so that more of the structural strength is spread across the ribs?
On a VSO, both the upper and lower bouts vibrate as speaker cones, and these are connected by one longitudinal bar running under the bass side of the bridge. But for them to vibrate freely, the complication is in the thicknessing of the plate and the shape of the recurve.
This is the huge plus of having a forum with instrument builders other than guitars .We can learn the principals of how other types of instruments function and maybe borrow from these, and adapt to our own instruments.
Matt , the soundboard topic is worthy of it's own thread . If you could start same it would be appreciated . That way , any future searches about soundboards are made easier .
I would love to hear more Matt , please keep the ball rolling
Matt , the soundboard topic is worthy of it's own thread . If you could start same it would be appreciated . That way , any future searches about soundboards are made easier .
I would love to hear more Matt , please keep the ball rolling
Last edited by Craig on Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Stephen Kinnaird
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Ron Wisdom
- Blackwood
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Yes I did thanks Ron . I find the cutting out is the easy part ! It's Paua from New Zealand of courseRon Wisdom wrote:Craig, did you cut that kiwi yourself? That's really nice.
Ron
We used to gather them for a good Paua meal . They taste delicious too ,but have now become a delicacy. Years ago there would be hardly a household without a few Paua shell ashtrays hanging around . My brother still dives for them occassionally.I'm told the best (or most colourful ) shells come from cold water climates. The Mother of Pearl from the Bluff Oysters ( South of the South Island ) are supposed to be some of the best. A meal of these oysters is a real treat . One oyster will nearly fill a saucer ! Mmmmmm Oysters
Lillian , Thanks . I go to extroadinary lengths to get the results I'm after.
Last edited by Craig on Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
Craig, thanks. This is what I was after in the other thread that Martin started. Love the details in your work. Sure others won't mind if this thread is resurrected as they will get to see it again.
Just a few questions if I may.
Do you always use that foot on your head block on the back or is that just for this 12?
With your A frame braces, do you run them through the transverse brace? Would butting them up either side of the brace do the same job or do you think running them through also acts in other ways.
I was thinking you could pin them with toothpicks or something to stop them creeping away over time.
I am just thinking through how the string forces act in this area.
I see you use a little spacer between the headblock and T brace. Have you thought of using 2 feet on the headblock? There was discussion of using spanish style heals on SS in the latest GAL journal.
That's enough for now.
Cheers
Dom
Just a few questions if I may.
Do you always use that foot on your head block on the back or is that just for this 12?
With your A frame braces, do you run them through the transverse brace? Would butting them up either side of the brace do the same job or do you think running them through also acts in other ways.
I was thinking you could pin them with toothpicks or something to stop them creeping away over time.
I am just thinking through how the string forces act in this area.
I see you use a little spacer between the headblock and T brace. Have you thought of using 2 feet on the headblock? There was discussion of using spanish style heals on SS in the latest GAL journal.
That's enough for now.
Cheers
Dom
G'day Dom,
Yes , I like that foot on the headblock. I figure every little bit of support helps in this area and takes up little space. For 6 stringers too !
My A- Frame braces are 1/2 " tall by 3/8 " thick . You will find they are a lot beefier than others use . I figure they need be these dimensions to be able to do their job properly.Not so much of a concern if you were to use a C.F. buttress design like Dave White or Rick Turner.
Because of the dimensions I use on these braces, I notch both the transverse and the A-Frame brace to accept each other with a good tight fit ( Like our crossbrace notching) If I were to notch the Transverse only , it would be taking to much out of that important brace. They are also let in to the headblock.
No, I don't thing butting A-frame braces up to the Transverse would do quite the same thing. I took the A-Frame idea from George Lowden. As you probably are aware , Martin now use this design on some of their newer models . I do hear occasionally of people referring to them as " the Martin A-Frame ", but Lowden has been using them for many years. I believe them to not only be structually a good thing , but also a very good thing sound wise. I'm not certain as to why this is the case , but my guess is : If we to think of the soundboard as a drum head ( skin ) ,it has tension being put on it from the lower bridge area, and the Aframe puts tension on it from the other side . A bit like tightening only one half of a drum with their tension lugs and leaving the other half loose ,( thud thud ! ) as opposed to tightening all the drum head lugs ( boing boing !)
I may be completley wrong there Dom, and it may be the ravings of a mad Kiwi !
The A- Frame /transverse can't creep from each other because of their notchings.
The Mahogany piece between the headblock and Transverse is to house a pocket for a screw down fingerboard extension I used, and that is all it is there for really. ( the screws weren't installed in the picture ).I have noted however , that a number of factory built guitar use a piece very
similar to support the headblock against the transverse , but with no A-Frame.
More Questions are no problem Dom !
Cheers , Craig
Yes , I like that foot on the headblock. I figure every little bit of support helps in this area and takes up little space. For 6 stringers too !
My A- Frame braces are 1/2 " tall by 3/8 " thick . You will find they are a lot beefier than others use . I figure they need be these dimensions to be able to do their job properly.Not so much of a concern if you were to use a C.F. buttress design like Dave White or Rick Turner.
Because of the dimensions I use on these braces, I notch both the transverse and the A-Frame brace to accept each other with a good tight fit ( Like our crossbrace notching) If I were to notch the Transverse only , it would be taking to much out of that important brace. They are also let in to the headblock.
No, I don't thing butting A-frame braces up to the Transverse would do quite the same thing. I took the A-Frame idea from George Lowden. As you probably are aware , Martin now use this design on some of their newer models . I do hear occasionally of people referring to them as " the Martin A-Frame ", but Lowden has been using them for many years. I believe them to not only be structually a good thing , but also a very good thing sound wise. I'm not certain as to why this is the case , but my guess is : If we to think of the soundboard as a drum head ( skin ) ,it has tension being put on it from the lower bridge area, and the Aframe puts tension on it from the other side . A bit like tightening only one half of a drum with their tension lugs and leaving the other half loose ,( thud thud ! ) as opposed to tightening all the drum head lugs ( boing boing !)
I may be completley wrong there Dom, and it may be the ravings of a mad Kiwi !
The A- Frame /transverse can't creep from each other because of their notchings.
The Mahogany piece between the headblock and Transverse is to house a pocket for a screw down fingerboard extension I used, and that is all it is there for really. ( the screws weren't installed in the picture ).I have noted however , that a number of factory built guitar use a piece very
similar to support the headblock against the transverse , but with no A-Frame.
More Questions are no problem Dom !
Cheers , Craig
Grant,
Those liners are a Charles Fox design . They are a two part arrangement with the kerfed part glued on first . Their profile is not wedged but parallel , and have a rebate in them to accept the capping, which is glued on afterwards. They make the whole thing very solid and give the soundboard a good anchoring perimeter. This means less soundboard energy loss to the sides.
Cheers, Craig
Those liners are a Charles Fox design . They are a two part arrangement with the kerfed part glued on first . Their profile is not wedged but parallel , and have a rebate in them to accept the capping, which is glued on afterwards. They make the whole thing very solid and give the soundboard a good anchoring perimeter. This means less soundboard energy loss to the sides.
Cheers, Craig
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