Classical Guitar - Tasmanian Tiger Myrtle

[Gregory USA]

Hello ladies and gentlemen! I'm new to the Ausssie luthier's forum and thought I would take a moment to say hello , introduce myself, and share my latest lutherie project with you. I'm Gregory Fulghum from Denver, Colorado USA. I'm a classical and flamenco player and luthier in my spare time. I've been a student of Robert O'Brien, http://www.obrienguitars.com for the past two years, and I have constructed some truly wonderful instruments under his tutelage. Robbie is an amazing instructor, a great friend, and "I'd like to thank the academy... yup, cheers, thanks alot!".

Though I am strictly, and passionately, a classical/flamenco builder, I strive to interpret this instrument with a contemporary twist, marrying modern artistic sensibilities with a classical voice. I'm not a purist, I'm an artist.

My most recent project I submit for this forum's constructive critique. This guitar is made from a stunning back and side set of Tasmanian Tiger Myrtle that I obtained from Stephen at http://www.colonialtonewoods.com In fact, when this wood set arrived, I was so pleased that I immediately arranged for another set and was lucky enough to obtain the sister set from the same flitch. Stephen has some of the most amazing wood in the world and all my beer money and all my gratitude go to him. Trust me, his wood offerings are unparallelled.

The guitar I present today is paired with a master grade German Spruce top (LMI), braced with a hybrid Robert O'Brien/Antonio Torres pattern, and it sounds quite promising. It appears to be quite loud and fast in response at the present. Headplate and elyptical rosette are bookmatched (but not a true match) Tasmanian Tiger Myrtle, African ebony bindings, Honduran Mahogany neck, African Blackwood fretboard and bridge, Gotoh Premium Classical Tuners. I've used reverse mahogany kerfing top and back, mahogany back bracing, German spruce top bracing throughout the top. Incidentally, this is guitar #6 for me if you are interested.

In the coming weeks, a French polish will be carefully administered and then the final test... set-up and strings. Until then... let me know what you think! Incidentally, she's a keeper- not for sale. More pics to follow when the finish is on. Thanks for considering this one!

[Kim]

Welcome to the ANZLF Gregory

Beautiful guitar, very clean and refined work and some unique ideas you have going there.

That shot of the bracing and also the use of tiger myrtle for the back reinforcement strip highlights your attention to detail. Tiger Myrtle is a wonderful tonewood and you are on the money about Steve Roberson of Colonial Tonewoods. Steve is not only a great wood vendor but he is a great guy to deal with all round, so much so that he is on this forums preferred vendors list dropping in to make a post himself from time to time.

Anyhow, great work Gregory and thanks for posting.

Cheers

Kim

[Gregory USA]

Kim-

I've often read your postings on the ANZLF and taken many of your words to heart. Thank you for your compliments on my current guitar. It's a very satisfying project and I will miss it when I am done. But the good news is that there is always another one waiting in the wings. When people ask, "Which of my guitars is my favorite guitar?" My response is invariably, "the one in my head!".

This Tiger Myrtle is a new tonewood for me, not much known in the USA, and when I first saw it, well it's obvious beauty struck me. The taptone is quite remarkable in both the sets I have. In the past I have used Spanish Cypress (to soothe the flamenquisto in me), East Indian Rosewood, Prima Vera (also from Colonial Tonewoods), and African Blackwood. I love the Blackwood guitars I have built, but I tell you, they do not hold a candle to this Tiger Myrtle when it comes to workability, bending, finishing. I think the tiger myrtle will be a real contender here for quality and volume of sound.

Again, thanks for the posting. I'll continue to watch for your postings on other topics with much anticipation! All the best!

Gregory

[jeffhigh]

What a lovely set of tiger myrtle, be great to see it with a finish.
Beautiful construction too. the rosette is not to my taste, I guess I am too traditional of a mindset.
I see you have used reverse kerf linings, this seems rare in classicals. Having used it on a few builds, I would not want to go to standard.
What is the white/ black rim bracing?
Jeff

[Gregory USA]

Jeff- I sincerely thank you for your valued opinion. Indeed, the rosette is not the usual or to everybody's taste, but it was how I felt inspired to use the wood. I wanted to show off the tiger myrtle and this seemed like a solution to maximize the wood. I'm just curious to hear what people think so your opinion DOES matter to me. Thank you for expressing it!

I agree, reverse kerf linings linings have tremendous construction advantages and I doubt I will ever return to the usual triangle kerfing. They are neater to install (I wet them slightly and rarely experience a break) and the result is a very clean look. The advantage is also that they leave a thicker edge, handy when routing bindings, and they truly do stiffen the rims/sides. I HIGHLY recommend using them. I speculate that reverse kerfing is also advantageous to the overall sound production since they seem to create a stiff barrier around the top, concentrating the vibrations on the top and allowing the top to vibrate more violently.

My first two guitars, both constructed of African Blackwood and German Spruce, were identical in construction with the exception of kerfings. The guitar with the reverse kerfing has a louder and warmer sound, and the sustain is remarkable on the guitar with the reverse kerfings.

The side struts on the rims are home-made laminations of maple and ebony used to stiffen the sides. In my very dry desert climate, humidity is a problem, and should a side eventually split, the struts act to minimize any damage just like the rinforcement strip would on a back. I suppose that an ordinary piece of wood would perform the same function, but I decided to dress things up, and all those glue lines in the lamination are added strength too. Of course, we supplement humidity with case humidifiers, and a humidified room too.

These are my thoughts. Thank you so very much for sharing your opinion. I welcome all opinions.

Gregory

[jeffhigh]

I would love to see the African Blackwood guitars. one day when I have a few builds under my belt and can afford it, I will do one. Have loved that wood since I built a flute from it a few years back.
It is nice to see the fancy side bracing, just a nice surprise to see some detail on something which is ordinarily so utilitarian.
reghards'
Jeff

[Craig]

Very cool set of Myrtle Gregory. I appreciate the matching back graft. Looks fantastic !

I'm also not sure I go for the rosette in this instance .

A stunning guitar though Gregory and beautiful craftsmanship

[Gregory USA]

Jeff-

In good fun, I thought I would torture you with my 2 African Blackwood guitars.

Both guitars have Indian Rosewood necks, one has a master grade Englemann Spruce top, the other a master grade German Spruce top (I stated incorrectly earlier that they were both German Spruce). Both have Brazilian rosewood bindings, African Blackwood fingerboards and bridges, Blackwood back bracing, and Blackwood center reinforcement strips. My first guitar had a Rosewood wedge shape inlaid into the headstock. I thought it looked great until the tuners went in, and then all the work seemed to get lost. I have since abandoned extra ornamentation in the headstock because of this.

The second Blackwood guitar (the third guitar I ever built) has a 3-ring interlocking rosette. It's my favorite rosette design visually, fun to execute, I think it looks great - but certainly not traditional. In fact, I rather dislike the traditional rosettes myself, so I come up with this crazy stuff. Incidentally, I carefully calculated the open area of the many "lace" holes to match my Hauser guitar plan's single open soundhole. It's just more work to execute is all.

Both of these guitars are heavy because of the Blackwood, and the rosewood necks. At 6'4" (1.76m), I'm a big guy, and don't notice the extra weight. A person of smaller stature or less upper body strength would probably find them tiring after a while.

The Blackwood will murder the sharp edges on your tools, is very brittle to work, I found a razor blade was my best tool for many tasks. Your tools have to be extraordinarily sharp. especially for routing binding channels. Carving Indain rosewood is like carving concrete, they were very difficult necks to carve considering these were guitars #1 and #3 for me and that I had no prior woodworking experience. I would be very hard pressed to carve rosewood necks again.

Blackwood is perhaps my favorite guitar wood.... splurge on it... it's worth every dollar.

Thanks for the post Jeff!

Gregory

[Dennis Leahy]

Hi Gregory,

And welcome to the ANZLF by another Americano.

You know, we have all seen SO many classical guitars with very similar face-up appointments, that this look just hits me as "different." But, the more I look at the offset rosette and swept wing bridge design, the more I like it.

What can you say about wood that gorgeous! I know I'd be sighing in relief that the wood yielded peacefully into it's new shape.

Well done! Shake up the classical world - it's too steeped in tradition.

Dennis

[kiwigeo]

Welcome to the forum Gregory. Love your classicals....definitely something to aspire to.

Cheers Martin

[Gregory USA]

Craig-

Thank you for taking the time to submit your opinion, I really appreciate your comments. Hmmm, I may have to rethink this rosette design for future guitar projects, it does not seem to be going over as well as I had anticipated. On this guitar, I will stand by this design, since I think it was a good choice. I'm not sure what other options would have been.

When I receive my back and side set of this Tasmanian Tiger Myrtle, I was floored by it's uniqueness. I have never seen anything like this wood before... ever. There was something quite appealing about juxtaposing such a contemporary style of wood with such a classical form. In my opinion, it made it thoroughly new, kind of funky, almost sexy. I dare say, "haute-couture" of the guitar world.

I know, some of you may think it is an utter bastardization of the wood and the instrument too. In reality, it is a deeply personal expression of an artist. So what am I saying? Well, I'm not a visionary builder trying to forge new paths any more than I am a rigid traditionalist seeking to perfectly imitate the old masters. I'm just an amateur builder, a guy building my guitars, one at a time, fulfilling my ideas, trying something old and something new together. I don't know how my teacher and mentor manages to put up with me, but he seems to understand.

In a world where Indian rosewood seems to be the predominate flavor of classical guitars, and with good reason mind you, a guy like me just has to try something new. It's as if my soul aches for the change. With 6 guitars under my belt, it's turned into a fever. I like it.

As I continue to build, I actively seek the opinion of others. I want to learn, I want to see new things, and hear new ideas. Always, everybody, thanks for sharing your opinion and ideas, I am the wiser and the better for it.

Thank you Craig!

Gregory

[Gregory USA]

Dennis- Thank you for your posting and you generous comments. A glimmer of approval.... many thanks!

Yes, the classical guitar world is unundated with "cookie-cutter" imagery of what a classical guitar is supposed to look like. I understand those rules quite well. I guess, I just needed to get out of the box on this guitar. I'm excited to get strings on it soon.... as when it comes down to it... the sound is what we all aspire to find in our guitars.

The bridge is an accidental design that I have adopted as my standard looking bridge now. It takes a little extra effort to make, but it looks very finished in the final product. When I get the finish on, I'll be sure to snap a few close-ups for you to see... there is a fine bevel running ther perimeter of the wings. The shape seems to make sense to me these days since by bridge patch under the top is of a similar shape.

That's my story... and I'm sticking to it!

Thanks for the kind words Dennis!

Gregory

[Gregory USA]

Thanks for the positive feedback Martin! I truly appreciate it!

Is there any one thing about these classical instuments that truly stands out to you? Is it the wood itself, the overall design, the craftsmanship? Someday we will have forums where you can hear them more readily!

Thanks Martin. I hope to read more of your postings in this forum!

Gregory

[Allen]

First off, welcome to the forum Gregory.

There looks to be some really fine craftsmanship happening there. The wood choices are top notch, and I really like the use of the Tiger Myrtle for the head plate, rosette and back reinforcement.

I applaud you on daring to be different in an instrument that everyone seems so uptight about modernizing. I find the rosette on the Tiger Myrtle quite appealing in shape. I keep going back and looking at it and I can't decide if it might need a little something, but what that is I couldn't say. Perhaps it just needs some frets and a set of strings, then play the daylights out of it.

[Bob Connor]

G'day Gregory and welcome to the forum.

I really like the rosette. Unique , nouveau, refreshing.

I'm not a fan of classical rosettes

The quality of you workmanship is superb and I'm sure it'll sound great when you string it up.

Tiger Myrtle is interesting wood. Doesn't have much of a tap tone when compared with the rosewoods but sounds great when you attach a lump of Spruce to it.

I'm looking forward to your impressions of it after you string it up.

[Gregory USA]

Allen,

Thanks for your kind response. I'm glad you like the rosette. I've started to french polish now that my frets are in. In the coming weeks in anticipate setup and strings. I assure you, this one's sound right now is so promising that I am eagerly anticipating the string up! I'll be sure to post photos when I am done.

Again, thanks for the kind words!

Gregory

[Gregory USA]

Bob,

Thanks for the kind words. In fact, I think you hit the nail on the head when it comes to this guitar- nouveau!

The tiger myrtle is an interesting wood, and I eagerly anticipate strings. I was surprised how much the wood changed in appearance as I began to apply my French polish of shellac. I particularly love how the pinks, sunset oranges, corals, and reds are glowing in this wood like embers in a fire against those near-black stripes.

I'll post photos here soon when I am finished. It's exciting to be here after a few months of work!

Gregory

[Lillian]

Gregory, I keep coming back to look at the tiger myrtle. When I first saw it I liked it. But the more I look at it the more it bothers me and I'm hoping its just the camera angle. Is the ring offset from the top? It looks like the fret board has slipped off the ring and is sliding down the left side, as you face it. Is it?

[James Mc]

Hi Gregory
Beautiful craftsmanship and exquisite attention to detail... Magnifico!

I'm not sure about the offset rosette, like Lillian I find it disturbing to the eye, but I don't think it is the rosette (which I actually like the concept of) perhaps it is the angled scallop on the end of the fret board that is throwing my perception off kilter. However I think the tiger myrtle will have much more visual impact once you have polished the top and will become such a a striking feature it will draw the eye of everyone who looks at it.

I have a huge 50 year old chunk of myrtle in my ever growing timber pile that I have earmarked for a future classical or three. I was going to use it this build but the driving need to build a flamenco using Australian timbers got the better of me so I have put it on the back burner for now.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the sound of this one in comparison to the African Blackwood and maybe a post with some build photos of one of your flamencos if you have some.

Now... about this comment "soothe the flamenquisto in me" can you really soothe down a flamenquist... and would you want to?

Cheers, be well and be welcome.

[jeffhigh]

Hi Gregory, thanks for posting the African Blackwood pics.
I really like the look of both of them and I dig the knot style rosette.
I bet they smell great too AB has such a wonderful earthy smell.
Jeff

[Gregory USA]

Lillian-

You have a very keen visual sense. To a very small degree, the top of the guitar is off center... by 2mm at the 12th fret skating to the treble side. The lower bout is dead center. I know this because I had a FIT about it. The rosette lined up perfectly on the top but the top did not stay on center. It's a long story. Remember that this is guitar #6 for me too, cut me some slack here.

In order to minimize this defect, I decided to turn the flaw into what we jokingly call "a design feature" at school. The end of the fretboard is asymetric, longer on the bass (left) side intentionally. This is my attempt to mask the defect because a symetrical arch would have further emphasized the defect when viewed against the fret and hole. Of course, once the finish is on, and the bridge is placed, it will have to center with the fingerboard.

I do think that the photo almost exagerates this as it is much less noticeable in real life. It's 2 mm. Incidentally, cutting that rosette... it's quite challenging to get it perfect because you have to drill two perfectly center holes in perfect alignment 4 times (two to make the rosette, and then use those holes as a template on the top.) It's not as easy as it looks. I made several practice pieces in scrap and it was about my 6th or 7th try before I got it right.

I used this same rosette on a rosewood guitar and inlaid it with almost 100 miniscule paua abalone dots of random sizes--- mimicking a night sky on the rosette and running up the fingerboard. Again, not purely classical in taste... but it's a flashy flamenco guitar that was constructed entirely of rosewood, absolutely everything was rosewood except for the German spruce top.

Thanks for the post!

Gregory

[Gregory USA]

Indeed- The Blackwood guitars have an incredibly earthy smell. I must say it is a but unpleasant smelling when being machined, but the guitar case has this great aroma now that they are my work-horse guitars. I play them alot!

Don't hesitate to treat yourself to a blackwood guitar. You will love it!

The triple knot rosette is a really fun design to execute, and perhaps one of my more "flashy" rosettes. I happened upon it because I have a gold ring that has three types of gold comprising the interlocking rings- white gold, red gold, and yellow gold. I saw the ring resting on my bureau and I thought, there is my rosette. Three rings for my third guitar. Also I am one of three brothers. It was all about the number three for some reason. Somebody later pointed out to me that another guitar maker has used this design. I was somewhat disappointed by this later discovery.

I have also duplicated this 3-ring rosette using three different pre-made Russian rosettes in different patterns but with similar colorways. I'll try to get a photo and post it later. I do NOT recommend using three different pre-made rings as each ring is slightly different in size, and so the spacing has to be augmented slightly to acommodate. The problem is when you come to cut the holes out for the sound hole... if you use a circle cutter base on a dremel... the margin of soundhole that remains is a variable distance because of the different ring sizes and spacings. You have to hand file to achieve symetry in the design. It's challenging to say the least.

I've used zebrawood for this same 3-ring rosette when helping a friend execute it, but skewed the graphic zebrawood grain on each ring so as to radiate from a central point. That made a stunning rosette. It had black purflings on the edges to anchor it to the top visually. I will be executing something quite similar this fall with Brazilian bloodwood, and Brazilian tulipwood. Here is a pic of the zebrawood rosette on my friend Bessie's guitar.

[Gregory USA]

James-

Thanks for your post. Indeed, why squelch a flamenquisto? As a flamenco artist, it finds it's own way out.

As for this rosette... ha ha. I've always joked and said that this rosette concept was rooted in a pair of very large earrings for women. I roared with laughter when I cut two rosettes from the tiger myrtle woods, they reminded me of some taudry earings one might find on a Las Vegas stripper/showgirl. My guitar building class had quite a joke about it going for a long time. Ok.... this rosette is getting worse by the minute.

Now that the finish is on the top... it is quite elegant actually. I'll let you know my impressions about the sound as compared to the Blackwood.

Thanks for the welcome, I'll try to round up some photos of my flamenco guitars (#4 and #5.. one of Spanich Cypress , the other all East Indian Rosewood). The cypress is a nice guitar...it drives fast, and full throttle. I prefer the Cypress sound to the Rosewood sound. The rosewood is almost too elegant , too refined of a sound. I prefer a flamenco guitar that is more canon like, a guitar that barks, has a bit of raspy buzz. I can see this tiger myrtle making a fantastic flamenco guitar. The working properties are very similar to the Spanish Cypress but the myrtle is much more forgiving when bending on a form. They are very similar in weight, density, and finishing.

As a teaser until I can get better photos... my flamenco guitars are the upright cypress, the upright rosewood, and theclassical tiger myrtle all seen on the far right of the photo.

Pull that hunk of tiger myrtle out... build yourself a fantastic guitar. I really am finding this experience quite rewarding. What other woods do you Aussies have that we Yanks don't? I'm really quite curious to find some new and interesting woods. Trust me, tiger myrtle is very uncommon if not practically unheard of here in the USA.

[James Mc]

Alas Gregory, my myrtle isn't the tiger variety... comes from the same tree but doesn't have the tiger pattern which is rare... But it is as cheap as chips and will sound and work the same. We have a timber that smells divine called huon pine, I think will rock as a flamenco.

[Gregory USA]

James-

Even the ordinary myrtle is a stunning wood I'm sure. Great redish color, dense and requiring no pore fill (I consider this a great asset), light weight, and strong. When I bent my tiger myrtle sides, I bent two of the same side on my form. I completely freaked out. Instantly, I was able to unbend my mistake and rebend in the correct manner. It scared me to death. I am particularly fond of these sides. The result was extraordinary... no flat spots, no breaks... it behaved beautifully.

If it if so readily available, and inexpensive, I'm surprised that it is not used more widely! Though I do no have strings on it yet, it reminds me an awful lot of Cpanish cypress.

Gregory