Instrument weight

[TKAY]

The gestation of my Lute is over!!!
Only about 40 years. Thanks to Martin and bits of incidental information from many members I now have to learrn to play.
My query is regards weight of acoustic guitars in there various forms. Do you aim at a specific weight range or go for aesthetic and measured values?
I would be interested in hearing what weight some instruments are, I nearly put how heavy! Most instruments compared to a lute would be heavy!
The instrument I made is from Blackwood, Qld Walnut, WA Swamp mallet for pegs, Swiss Pine belly and home made vellum binding with a 62 cm strimg length modeled on a Hans Frei 1530 American Luthiers Ass. The weight ready to play is 740 grams
I plan on covering its build in a later post.

[simso]

I personally never give consideration to the end weight on an acoustic build, an electric build, most definetly

Steve

[mooshalah]

I don't usually worry about the weight of steel-stringed or classical guitars - depends on their size and philosophy of construction - but am quite conscious of the need to keep down the weight of any flamenco guitar I'm making.

The reasons - I tell myself, but I know that many others concur with some, if not all of these - are:

1/. The soundboard is traditionally made as thin as feasible - just on the edge of failure - so as to keep the tone as percussive as possible, and the braces are likewise designed to be really light;

2./ Thinner body profile (i.e. less weight of wood in the sides) than a classical guitar;

3/. The dimensions of the bridge are trimmed down to be as small and light as possible;

4/. No heavy / thick linings. This is primarily to prevent vibration of the soundboard from transferring into the sides, so that the sides and back will only minimally sustain the sound, and tantelones (individual lining blocks rather than continuous lining strips) can assist in minimising weight;

5/. Traditionally the backs and sides of blanca (but not negra) flamenco guitars are made of lighter wood - invariably cypress, if one is being true to the idiom;

6/. All this lightening up on the body side means that, in order to maintain "balance" (particularly because flamenco players don't usually sit like classical guitar players, but balance the instrument on their right, rather than left, thighs) the neck and head of the instrument need to be lightened up, so that the instrument won't keep rotating down into the left hand. Thus heads are kept relatively small, and the tuners / pegs kept light;

7/. Just an opinion, but inasmuch as the construction of the heel (usually a "Spanish heel") doesn't play that much of a role in either the lightness of the body, nor in causing downward rotation of the neck and head, I've not heard of builders specifically trying to keep the weight of the heel down. I don't go overboard with a heavy chunk of wood left in the heel, but I don't think about it specifically. I guess I keep the weight down, in keeping with the overall philosophy, but don't know if it's an issue.

I try to keep the weight of a flamenco 650mm scale instrument around 1,300 grams, but I know that others believe that less - like, 1,050 grams - is even "better"! I dunno how they do it! There's just so much one can shave off the weight, and I'm guessing it's a matter of diminishing returns, below say 1,350 grams.

Of course, a lute's a completely different kettle of fish, but I've always been surprised at just how light lutes (or Middle Eastern Uds) feel, when I've picked them up.

Frank.

[lamanoditrento]

Agree with Steve, not a second thought for acoustics only for eletrics

[Steve.Toscano]

My only consideration for weight in Classical or Acoustics is that they are balanced and certainly not neck heavy - which going by feedback from players is often a downside/complaint to BOBO construction.

However when it comes to flamenco the weight of the instrument in my opinion is the single most important factor for getting that flamenco sound.
Here's my latest flamenco blanca (ceder top):

[mooshalah]

Wow Steve!

That's really shaving it right to the "edge of failure". I'll bet it sounds really "barky" and in your face - as it should.

Don't you just hate it when you've slaved to get the weight down, then you've got to increase it again by adding those heavy pieces of golpeadores (thin plastic tap plates that you now have to glue onto the soundboard so that the player doesn't go bashing his fingers through the super-thin top!)?

Nothing lasts for ever - least of all well made, well played flamenco guitars.

Frank.

[kiwigeo]

4/. No heavy / thick linings. This is primarily to prevent vibration of the soundboard from transferring into the sides, so that the sides and back will only minimally sustain the sound, and tantelones (individual lining blocks rather than continuous lining strips) can assist in minimising weight;

Of course, a lute's a completely different kettle of fish, but I've always been surprised at just how light lutes (or Middle Eastern Uds) feel, when I've picked them up.

Frank.

I think you'll find the general thinking is that solid/thick linings help create an impedance to string energy leaking down the sides from the top.

Lutes are light for a lot of reasons. The tops are very thing compared to a guitar. My last build has a top that's just over 1mm thick in places. The thinness of the top is countered by the instrument having more top bracing than a guitar. The neck is a lot shorter than on a guitar....on my Gerber the length of the neck is actually less than that of the body of the instrument.