does mass of the nut matter?

[Mark McLean]

I have built my last few acoustic guitars using a zero fret, for various reasons. I quite like it for simplicity of setup, and the tuning seems smoother (less friction, no "sticking" of strings in the nut slots). You still need a nut, but it is reduced simply to being a string spacing device at the top of the neck. I have used the same nut as normal, but lower and with deeper slots so the string bears on the zero fret, not on the leading edge of the nut.

Anyway, I don't necessarily want to start a debate on pro/cons of a zero fret setup. But if you do use one, would it be OK to use a much more slender nut than a traditional one? Perhaps something more like you see on a Fender electric neck, or same width as the saddle. Would the reduction in mass at the top of the fretboard be likely to have a significant effect (e.g. on sustain)? The converse question is whether a heavier nut (e.g. brass) would have any effect if used in a traditional setup?

Mark

[Nick]

Something as small as a 'nut' I can't see having any noticeable effect on any of the things we are trying to build in to our guitars (sustain, tone e.t.c) when it's used in a zero fret situation, as you say, the strings aren't in any direct load-bearing contact with the 'string guide' (because that's all it is in this situation effectively) so isn't affecting anything directly and as far as adding mass, it's probably too bugger all to make any difference so making it thinner?....personally I can't see a problem with it.

[seeaxe]

I don't think it matters, zero fret or not.

I build with zero frets and on my classicals I use a normal nut blank but generally it is as low or even lower than the zero fret, so i can level frets with it in place, if required. (because I can put it in before finish goes on and get a better detail at the nut/neck/headstock interface). Point being it doesn't really matter what thickness the nut is, it's just a spacer as you say. By the time mine is levelled off there's not much left any way so it's pretty light.
Hope that helps.
Cheers

[Mark McLean]

OK, that is in line with my thoughts too. I have heard of people claiming that adding a lot of mass to the headstock - like a substantial steel G-clamp - will increase sustain. But also makes the guitar impossible to hold, and looks stupid. Even that might be a myth, and it is hard to imagine that something as small as the nut would have a significant mass effect. You have given me license to go ahead and use whatever works and looks good.

[kiwigeo]

OK, that is in line with my thoughts too. I have heard of people claiming that adding a lot of mass to the headstock - like a substantial steel G-clamp - will increase sustain. But also makes the guitar impossible to hold, and looks stupid. Even that might be a myth, and it is hard to imagine that something as small as the nut would have a significant mass effect. You have given me license to go ahead and use whatever works and looks good.

The clamp on the headstock thing isn't a myth.

I cant see a nut adding significantly to mass of the headstock unless it's made of lead.

[J.F. Custom]

Even more so, we are talking about the mass difference between two different size nuts - not even a nut or no nut. The difference would be very small and you'd be doing pretty well to concern yourself with that over other more pressing issues.

Now, a compensated zero fret on the other hand... There's a pain.

Jeremy.

[Mark McLean]

Now, a compensated zero fret on the other hand... There's a pain.
Jeremy.

Mine are dead straight and simple!
So, Jeremy, have you had a go at a compensated zero fret? Any stories to tell?
I have seen this picture of one by Nigel Forster

forster compensated zero fret.jpg (82 KiB) Viewed 11526 times

]

[J.F. Custom]

No Mark - no personal experience here.

Was just commenting. No reason you could not do it, but what a pain to do! As that picture demonstrates...

Jeremy.

[kiwigeo]

Was just commenting. No reason you could not do it, but what a pain to do! As that picture demonstrates...

Jeremy.

Could be worse.......

[aljosha]

wow,

I dont understand why anyone would use a zerofret in the first place, unless he aint got no time to do it properly...
and then that thing...

[Nick]

wow,

I dont understand why anyone would use a zerofret in the first place, unless he aint got no time to do it properly...
and then that thing...

A zero fret isn't an inferior way of achieving the same thing it's just a different way and besides, if you think about it, a Zero fret would actually take longer because you still have to cut slots in a guide 'nut' as well as leveling the zero fret. I'd take a zero fret over a poorly executed nut any day. I build using both by the way, depending on the instrument, so have no personal bias toward one over the other, as I said they both achieve the same thing.