Building a SS acoustic guitar, need help with timber

[archaic]

Mainly as the title says I'm going to attempt to build an SS acoustic guitar for my major project for year 12 woodwork. I'll be using the book "Guitarmaking: Tradition and Technology" by William R. Cumpiano and Jonathon D. Natelson as a guide for dimensions and steps along with resources online.

My main problem is deciding on what wood to use for the guitar and where to get it from. So far I've decided to get it from http://www.luthierssupplies.com.au for the most of the timber. This is what I've decided so far, I'm open to suggestions on changes etc.

Soundboard: Kauri Pine for this as from what I know it's a nice timber and goes well with the timber I've decided for my back/sides.
http://luthierssupplies.com.au/product_ ... cts_id=323

Back/sides: Queensland Maple for the back/sides as I love the look of this timber in comparison to the other choices I've seen, and the price is good too.
http://luthierssupplies.com.au/product_ ... cts_id=289

Bridge/pins : A rosewood bridge, and rosewood pins. I'm not sure whether to buy a blank or a pre-cut.
http://luthierssupplies.com.au/product_ ... cts_id=221

Binding: Flamed maple
http://luthierssupplies.com.au/product_ ... cts_id=253

Rosette: Herringbone pattern (this part's probably not too important when it comes to how it affects sound compared to other similar ones).
http://luthierssupplies.com.au/product_ ... cts_id=378

Neck/heel blank: Both will be African mahogany, if I could get a good neck that requires minimal filling that would be nice.
http://luthierssupplies.com.au/product_ ... cts_id=105
http://luthierssupplies.com.au/product_ ... cts_id=215

Headplate: Ebony, I'm not too certain how useful this will be, as can't I just cut off timber from the end of the neck and glue it back on as the headplate?
http://luthierssupplies.com.au/product_ ... cts_id=215

Fingerboard: Ebony, as It's a nice contrasting colour, a good timber. I'll probably get it pre-cut as I don't have the required tools to cut out the frets, unless i want to use a hand saw.
http://luthierssupplies.com.au/product_ ... ts_id=1219

Braces: Spruce, as I always hear it's the strongest wood to use for braces.
http://luthierssupplies.com.au/product_ ... cts_id=285

Truss rod: Martin style, I'm pretty unsure about what to get for this
http://luthierssupplies.com.au/product_ ... cts_id=175

Saddle/Nut: Bone blank, I might get a good one that's been shaped beforehand made out of something other than bone.
http://luthierssupplies.com.au/product_ ... ucts_id=90
http://luthierssupplies.com.au/product_ ... cts_id=204

That's most of what I've decided on, does anyone want to recommend me any strings, fret-wire, pickguard or tuning pegs. If I've missed anything that i also need to make this guitar tell me, there probably is some. Any help would be great, thanks.

[Trevor Gore]

For a first guitar, I'd suggest you stick with one of the spruces for a top. For the neck, Queensland maple is fine or New Guinea rosewood. For the fretboard, the rosewoods are a lot more stable than the ebonies, so go with a hard rosewood. A spare fretboard blank will provide you with enough wood for 2 or 3 bridges. Get a few spare bindings if you're using flame maple. You'll want one for the tail inlay and maybe a couple more for the ones that break bending them. The head block can be Queensland maple, the tail block can be ply. You can make a book-matched head plate from the off-cuts from the back panel, or use some of that spare fretboard.

You'll need a bridge plate (which can also come from that spare fretboard) and linings.

Read the Humidity thread!

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3749

[Clancy]

As a first build your right to get everything from the one supplier and save on freight costs.
If the bug bites you can start building your stash, getting multiple items from multiple sources.
I have used Luthier Supplies for items in the past and no doubt will continue to do so in the future.

As for the build itself, I can't argue with Trevor - after all, he has written a guitar design book that takes you from Simple Harmonic Motion to the Fourier Series a hell of a lot quicker than I remember they did at Uni all those years ago (thank goodness we don't build synthesizers or he'd have taken us further in to Ditigal & Discrete Fourier Transforms )

You'll also find that you need many specialised tools & jigs for building & setup.
Most you can 'mock up' yourself initially so don't be afraid to give that a go - it's as much a part of the build as the instrument itself (my jigs look like shit but work , some others builder's jigs look like they're gold plated!)

Finally, good luck on the project.
I wish I'd had the sense to do something like this in yr 12 instead of wasting my time learning not to choke on a ciggie .

[kiwigeo]

I wouldn't go anywhere near Trevor and Gerard's Book until at least one build was under my belt. Campiano doesn't use alot of jigs for construction whereas Trevor and Gerard do. Trevor and Gerard also go into some material that someone whos never built before would find hard to digest. For a first build it's critical to go low tech and keep it all simple.

As far as wood choices go my preferences would be:

Top and bracing - sitka spruce.
Back and sides - Indian Rosewood.
Neck - Sapele mahogany or Queensland Maple.
Fretboard - rosewood or ebony.
Bridge and bridge patch - rosewood
Nut and saddle - bone.

[archaic]

Okay thanks for all the help so far, my school has all the clamps I'll need for this and many other tools. Only ones that they don't have are a thumb plane and a hot bending pipe (but there are ways around this). I mainly prefer Queensland maple for the back/sides as the colour and texture of the wood really stick out to me, and it's easily within a fair price range.

[kiwigeo]

Okay thanks for all the help so far, my school has all the clamps I'll need for this and many other tools. Only ones that they don't have are a thumb plane and a hot bending pipe (but there are ways around this). I mainly prefer Queensland maple for the back/sides as the colour and texture of the wood really stick out to me, and it's easily within a fair price range.

Don't think you'll need a thumb plane. A decent bench plane and a block plane are very handy.

[Tod Gilding]

Hi archaic (What is your real name, let us know ) I finished my first acoustic guitar earlier this year and half finished my second,so I am not one to offer advice,except for this , listen and take note of everything you are told on this forum, you have already recieved information from some of the best,and there are lot more where they came from, I can almost guarantee that if you take advice you get from this forum you WILL produce a very nice instrument.

Good Luck

Tod

[archaic]

All the help so far has been great, and I'll be buying the timber and getting ready to start working on the guitar in the next few weeks, I just have to wait for my woodwork teacher to show up, since all the substitute teachers we've had won't let us use any of the tools.

Bao

[Tod Gilding]

How much time are you going to have to build this guitar ?

[archaic]

I'll hav about 4 school term at most, but an average might be 8 months of having three one hour and fifteen minute lessons a week.

[kiwigeo]

Roughly 96 hours??

If you plan your build you can do it...if you don't run to a plan then you might find yourself running out of time.

[archaic]

I pretty much have a good plan of what I have to do, it could use some work but it'll be fine for now. If anything I can get the guitar marked without it being stringed as to save time, since the markers won't be checking anything other than its construction, look and portfolio.

[vandenboom]

Archaic, for your first, have you considered buying a kit with all the bits you need. Down side is your timber choices become more limited, but it should be cheaper than buying all the bits individually. If you look at kits on the LSA site and want something different in eg back & sides, just ask them if they will do a swap.
I used Cumpiano for my first. The main thing I now and, from what I can gather, most builders do differently to his method, is they use a body mould and radius dishes. Cumpiano does not rely on either of these things which makes it easier and less costly to get started, but requires a bit more skill I think in bending the sides to keep the required shape without the assistance of a mould & clamps.
I also had Robbie O'Brien's steel string build DVD to refer to for the first build. Although it used mould/radius dishes, it was a great reference for lots of other little techniques. It costs around $40 so good value. Also, if you buy a kit, it usually includes a full size set of plans, which you don't get with the Cumpiano book - that book basically gives you some guidelines for designing your own. I bought a SS kit from LMI for my first, and it included full set of drawings and the RObbie O'Brien DVD. Not sure if this is still the case.
What a great year 12 project. Just take care that you leave some time to also do some work on your other potentially less engaging subjects. Frank (year 12 teacher!!!)

[Cookie man]

Hey archaic! looks like you'll have at least a little bit of fun for your Year 12

Let us know how it goes. I've nearly finished my last year and am hoping to make a guitar as well once exams are all finished.

Cheers

[archaic]

A kit's pretty much out of the question, I can buy some of the pieces e.g. the bridge, fretboard etc, already cut but most of it has to be made from scratch.

I should be buying most of the timber this weekend and getting ready to start it once I get the wood and bring it into class, I've already started on drawing up a proper template made out of plywood for the back of the guitar, if only the teacher had found the sheet before the lesson was nearly over.

[Sean Syman]

Hey man,

Just going from experience in my school's Technology department, the "if only the teacher had found the sheet before the lesson was nearly over" situation is really common. I built my first guitar in my last year at school (in NZ), but I did this without any interaction with the school as I didn't want the time constraint a school project has present, and the teachers are never really that helpful in a workshop full of students, they're always occupied when you need them. So my suggestion would be really proactive with your time in class, learn where everything is and don't let the teachers slow you down! I found it took over some of my other subjects as well, so watch out for that too. Good luck with your project, have fun man.

Cheers, Sean

[archaic]

Normally I am, I just went around and helped some of my friends with their gluing while I was waiting, I wasn't in any hurry as I could of just made the template at home.

Well I've managed to piece basically everything together, it's at about $360 for everything. I've used ideas on what to get from what I've been told here:

Soundboard: Sitka spruce
Back/Sides: Queensland maple
Neck/Heel blank: Queensland maple
Nut/Saddle: Bone blank
Bindings: Flamed maple x 4 (might get six just incase)
Rossette: Herringbone pattern
Fretboard: Indian rosewood (with the frets already cut, I also bought a spare fretboard; same timber, for the bridge patch and any other small jobs)
Bridge: Indian rosewood
Bridge pins: Indian rosewood
Kerfed lining: Spruce, triangular x 8
Headplate: Indian rosewood (how necessary is this?)

So yeah that's basically it for now, I'll buy the finishers later, same with the fretwire and strings, unless someone wants to recommend some. I'll get a pickguard later too, and probably some veneer for the headstock.

[Bruce McC]

Headplate: Indian rosewood (how necessary is this?)

Archaic

Yes a headplate is necessary, refer to Cumpiano and Natelson page 63 for a good
explanation as to the purpose of the headplate.
Good luck with your project.

[Tod Gilding]

Don't Forget what Trevor said in an earlier post here,

"Read the Humidity thread!"

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3749

[archaic]

Done, thanks for that, it was pretty good to read up on it, and to remind myself that we should leave the wood to reach a good moisture content; as I remember being taught back in year 8 woodwork. It's good that there's a dry room where I can store all the timber when not in use.

[Allen]

Head plate is very necessary if you don't want to see the head bend up under string tension. Also helps capture the nut.

I'd get at least one extra binding strip as you would be pretty pissed when one of the figured ones snapped on you and were left waiting for a replacement.

BTW, how are going going to go about bending your sides and bindings?

Didn't see a truss rod in your list of what you've got, though it was listed at the beginning. Just an oversight, or do you have one?

Also are the fret dots on the face of the fret board if you want them, and the small dots on the side of the fret board. Unless of course the one you've bought includes them.

And what about tuning machines? Some of the best ones for the money are the Grover Sta-Tite open back ones. It's something that you can dump a lot of cash on, and while that usually equates to better performance it's not necessarily always the case. As you are going with a herringbone rosette, I'd think that the open backs are more in keeping with that style of instrument.

[Allen]

Had a look at your time schedule and my gut tells me that there is no way on earth that you'll complete this in the time allocated unless you do at least some of it after hours.

Many of us have a great many builds under our belts and would find those time constraints pretty tight, especially since a lot of the steps require more than just a 1 hour session. Under those circumstances I know that I'd be challenged as while I don't keep accurate track of the time I spend on a guitar, I'd estimate it's somewhere in the 80 - 90 hour range without anything fancy on it, or stuff ups. You're planning is going to have to be spot on, with no wasted steps or stuff ups.

This isn't to put you off, but just to reinforce that the building of an acoustic guitar is a fair bit more than what many people seem to think.

[archaic]

I'll most definitely end up doing some work on it during the school holidays, and possibly during my free periods and whenever I can, I do have a truss rod picked out, a martin style one. With the fret I don't really feel like placing in any dots, I'd prefer to have a bare fretboard; when it comes to that. For the tuning pegs I might end up getting them from a local retailer, or looking online a bit more as I don't need them straight away.

I've given a lot of thought about bending the sides, my teacher says he will help me out with it, as I don't have any specialized equipment for it. How possible is it to bend it with a metal pipe that is being heated by something like a blow torch, or possible bending it using steam and hot water.

This is what I had in mind for the truss rod; http://luthierssupplies.com.au/product_ ... cts_id=175
If anyone wants to suggest something better I'm open to suggestions, as I'll be buying most of the timber tomorrow so I can get it as soon as possible.

[Allen]

Nothing wrong with that truss rod, and as it's local your shipping is going to be less.

This is the truss rod that is the only one that many of us will use because of it's build quality and double action.

[archaic]

Anyone have any recommendations for plans that I could buy, I was looking at possibly this:
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Books,_plan ... _Plan.html