Target Coatings EM6000 Waterborne Lacquer

Pete Brown · Post by **Pete Brown** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:12 pm

Back on the finishing bandwagon again - sorry!

Target Coatings' EM6000 waterborne lacquer is getting some good press lately - it sounds very, very promising.

Just for my own interest, I went to their web site and found that a quart tin is on sale at the moment for US$16.88. "Bargain!" I hear you all shouting!

My own keen interest didn't last long however because their on-line shipping quote would have me believe that an additional US$103 will be required for freight.

As freight on a quart of the Colortone waterbased lacquer from Stew-Mac is currently quoted at US$25, it makes you wonder where Target Coatings get their figures from.

Anyway, I've dropped them an email asking them to explain the difference. I'll let you all know the outcome in due course.

DarwinStrings · Post by **DarwinStrings** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:02 pm

While you are on the Target site, have a look at the "Oxford" range as the Oxford boasts 100% burn in no matter what the age, with no witness lines. So should be good for repairs. It is the one I posted on your other finishing thread and was hoping someone would try some of their stuff. The other claim they make is "The durability and chemical resistance of USL is equal to high-end solvent-based catalyzed lacquers.". Their blurb on the Oxford USL makes it look better than the EM6000 but anything in a water based that is as good as they claim would be a great stuff.

Where are you getting the "good press" on the em6000 Pete?

Jim

Pete Brown · Post by **Pete Brown** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:24 pm

anything in a water based that is as good as they claim would be a great stuff.

Jim, ain't that the truth!

Where are you getting the "good press" on the em6000 Pete?

There's a thread over on that "other" forum which has very positive feedback from several makers:
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/view ... 01&t=20862

Pete Brown · Post by **Pete Brown** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:31 pm

Oh, and have a look at http://www.targetcoatings.com/forum/vie ... php?t=1244 too.

"The durability and chemical resistance of USL is equal to high-end solvent-based catalyzed lacquers."

Yeah, yeah. Sometimes I think all the marketing guys graduated from the same college and are quoting from the same text book. "The durability and chemical resistance of [INSERT ALTERNATIVE FINISH PRODUCT NAME HERE] is equal to high-end solvent-based catalyzed lacquers."

Rod True · Post by **Rod True** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:29 am

Hi Pete,

Well, I'm one of those guys on both the forums you mention, who is using (or at least giving it a try) the EM6000.

I too looked at buying direct from Target but the shipping cost to me in Canada was also quoted at $103 which was from UPS. I got it through a local distributor.

So far it's great to work with as I've mentioned on the OLF. It would be nice if you could give it a try and maybe you'll be able to get a more favorable shipping price.

Pete Brown · Post by **Pete Brown** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:59 am

It would be nice if you could give it a try and maybe you'll be able to get a more favorable shipping price.

Jeff from Target Coatings has acknowledged there's a problem and is following it up with UPS and his web guy. More news as it comes to hand.

Rod True · Post by **Rod True** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:38 am

Cool, I sure hope it's beneficial for you. Please let us know the final cost, whether you choose to purchase or not.

DarwinStrings · Post by **DarwinStrings** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:28 pm

Hi Rod
Is there a reason you have used the EM6000 rather than the USL Oxford?.

Jim

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:40 pm

Just a heads up Pete, UPS while a great way to send stuff around the USA, are problematic anywhere else. You can regularly be slugged with "Duty Charges" that are nothing more than extortion. This is why you won't find experienced online stores using UPS for overseas shipping. Same goes with Fedex and DHL.

I've had 3 shipments with these companies that the vendor swore would be the cheapest and easiest way to get the product I was after. In all cases the shipping and duty (or whatever they like to call their surcharge) ended up being between 5 and 10 times the quote that was originally stated. The worst part is that you've already payed for the product, and shipping, but to actually get it you have to fork over some more dosh to have it.

Be aware that UPS (United Parcel Service) and USPS (United States Postal Service) are two different things. USPS is by and large pretty good at getting your goods to you and don't have hidden charges.

graham mcdonald · Post by **graham mcdonald** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:49 pm

The US Postal Service works remarkably well and cheaply. Avoid any of the parcel delivery services across the Pacific. If you are ever buying wood from a Canadian supplier, always ask if they are going to the US any time soon. I got some Englemann from Graham Klein who posted it over the border in the US because it saved him lost on the postage, which of course I appreciated!

cheers

graham

40Â° here tomorrow

Rod True · Post by **Rod True** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:30 am

Jim, I've heard to many stories about the USL not holding up on necks and also the speculation that the EM6000 is to be a bit better. So, I chose to go with the new product which is suppose to be better.

oh, and then there's the aligning of the stars, they were just right, and I saw the face of the Virgin Mary in my bowl of cheerios that morning so I knew it was all right

DarwinStrings · Post by **DarwinStrings** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:11 pm

Well you can't argue with a bowl of Cheerios can you. Thanks for the info.

Jim

May your breakfast cerial never be too soggy.

Pete Brown · Post by **Pete Brown** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:03 pm

Well, despite a week having passed, I have not heard back from Target Coatings on their freight costs. I sent them a reminder mid-week which hasn't generated a response, so I'll assume that's the end of the story.

The only possible recourse is to find a reseller whose freight costs are a little more realistic. I hope Rod reads this and can offer some suggestions.

Pete Brown · Post by **Pete Brown** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:05 pm

Well, despite a week having passed, I have not heard back from Target Coatings on their freight costs. I sent them a reminder mid-week which hasn't generated a response, so I'll assume that's the end of the story.

The only possible recourse is to find a reseller whose freight costs are a little more realistic. I hope Rod reads this and can offer some suggestions.

Edit:
Just as an afterthought, I've shot off an enquiry to Stewart-MacDonald who currently resell products made by Target Coatings, the hope being that they have plans to upgrade their current offering (Target USL) to the new improved EM6000.

Rod True · Post by **Rod True** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:08 am

Well, another option would be to see if one of the US folks here would be willing to buy a gal of it and ship it to you in Auz. That's the only other option I can see.

I'd also go to the Target Coatings forum and PM Jeff Weiss about your query.

Pete Brown · Post by **Pete Brown** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:19 am

Rod True wrote:I'd also go to the Target Coatings forum and PM Jeff Weiss about your query.

Thanks Rod, I'll give it a try.

Stewart-MacDonald replied, saying they "don't do custom orders", which doesn't quite address the question I posed, but I get the message.

Lillian · Post by **Lillian** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:39 pm

Pete, I did a quick search EM6000 and found 32oz on sale for $16.88. Shipping to me is $9.56 Ground and $16.39 three day service. If the container fits into a large flat rate box, its 5$3.95. If it fits in a medium box its $41.95. Base rate on just a package is $20.00 before figuring in weight.

I'm willing to ship, but I'm not sure I can get it into a flat rate box though. Kim's Super Soft II had to go in a juice jug. I'm not sure it would be a good idea to change containers on this stuff. I can't guess what the postage would be if it has to go in the box it came in.

Pete Brown · Post by **Pete Brown** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:56 pm

Lillian, thanks for your kind offer which I'll certainly keep in mind, but for now I'll persist in trying for a response from Target Coatings.

If Stew-Mac or LMI can ship a quart tin for US$25, I'm still hopeful that with a little prodding Target Coatings can too.

Lillian · Post by **Lillian** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:30 pm

They could if they ship through USPS, which I doubt they will. They are using one of the three carriers so that they don't have to hassle with filling out the paperwork and going to the Post Office. We all know that any of the carriers will shaft you over customs and duty and any other thing they can think of to use saying that they will walk it through for you so that there isn't a glitch and everything is as smooth as a baby's bottom. for a fee that is. If they aren't set up to deal with USPS already they probably will not even try to accommodate you. Sad, but true. Customer service isn't always a company's strong suite here either.

Stu · Post by **Stu** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:33 pm

I find it hard to believe there's no-one who distributes waterborne lacquers in oz.

I understand it is only a small market, but it is a growing one and
likely to take off once it is shown to be comparable to nitro or precat
in finished appearance and workability.

cheers, Stu

DarwinStrings · Post by **DarwinStrings** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:28 pm

I have just received a email from Jeff Weiss at Target coatings and he states this......

As for the current International UPS rates that are quoted on our site, we are still in review with UPS and hope to have a adjusted rate within the next week or so. Although our UPS Sales Representative stated that they can help us with better international rates, I am not expecting extremely low adjustments, especially for small/light weight packages to Australia, NZ and the UK. However, we are looking into installing a rate system with the United States Postal Service for international shipments. Their service overseas is much lower in cost and very efficient compared to UPS, FedEx and DHL.

In the meantime, please send any specific international order requests to the following email address and we will reply with a USPS mail/freight quote to help you and your associates in Australia determine if the cost is manageable:

[email protected]

If you are in a great rush for our EM6000 Water-Based Lacquer or any of our water-based systems please contact Stewart MacDonald Guitar Shop Supply Company in Athens, Ohio USA ( http://www.stewmac.com ), I assure you that their water-based wood finishes are of the highest quality and most recent formula updates within the StewMac brand name (wink/nudge).

Jim

Pete Brown · Post by **Pete Brown** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:29 pm

Jim, you are a legend (but I'm sure you already knew that!)

Despite a couple of emails and a PM on the Target forum, I haven't been able to get any response at all from Jeff since his initial acknowledgement. You obviously have the gift of the gab.

Cheers
Pete

Pete Brown · Post by **Pete Brown** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:41 pm

[deleted]

Sorry, yet another double post.

Cheers
Pete

DarwinStrings · Post by **DarwinStrings** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:02 pm

So what do you assume he is inferring by that "(wink/nudge)". Is he saying that colortone is em6000 or is that just my take.

Jim

Pete Brown · Post by **Pete Brown** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:18 pm

So what do you assume he is inferring by that "(wink/nudge)". Is he saying that colortone is em6000 or is that just my take.

Jim, that's my interpretation too. I've just sent an email to Stew-Mac seeking clarification. I don't think they willingly advertise the fact that their Colortone water-based products are made by Target Coatings, but it'll be interesting to see what they say when confronted with a direct question, i.e., is your (Stew-Mac's) Colortone lacquer Target USL, or Target EM6000?

I know Target has a good reputation for customer service, but if I can source material from Stew-Mac, I'll do so. I've always enjoyed great service from them in the past.

Cheers
Pete

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