Pore fill question

[TukitukiPhill]

Can anyone suggest a pore filling method/product where the top coats will be TruOil?
Thanks.

[kiwigeo]

Discussed here: https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/for ... p?t=606001

[Taffy Evans]

Hi, Yes, I have nearly finished a build using Aqua Coat wood grain filler. The photo shows the finished job. It worked well. That's new Guinee Rosewood and it took a lot of filling.

IMG_1062.JPG (148.76 KiB) Viewed 6097 times

Cheers Taff

[Mr K]

Lovely work Taffy, I've never seen flamed NGR.
I'm also in the middle of a build using Wenge and it took four applications of epoxy before I was happy.
Cheers Mark

[nkforster]

I've been using a very simple and effective pore fill for the last few months. Prior I was using epoxy. It worked, but it took longer than I liked.

1) Having sanded to 320 grit, seal the back, sides and neck with thin superglue. I use Starbond heavy Thin, though the fumes are foul. Make sure you're outside, with a mask and you have a fan on full blowing the fumes away. Wipe it on with a folded paper towel. Work quickly and coat the thing. Neck too. I'm going to try the odourless one soon to see if its better.

2) Timber mate from Bunnings. Pick a colour the same or slightly darker than your wood. Wipe it on, push it into the pores, let it go off. If you use it sparingly you should be dry in 10-15 mins. I use an old credit card or scrap bit of plastic.

3) Sand off lightly using 320 grit, you'll see when you get to the superglue layer. Try not to go through. I use an orbital sander on slow. And I use Abranet.

4) Repeat step 1 - wipe all over with Heavy Thin Starbond.

You're done. Ready to spray. Or French Polish if you're so inclined.

If you need to, mask off your bindings - if you don't want the Timbermate to get into the bindings. I almost always use black bindings so use black Timbermate on the bindings themselves. With Indian rosewood back and sides I use black TM on the whole instrument.

Its a great way to grain fill - a whole instrument is usually less than an hour from start to finish.

[Allen]

I can second how good Nigel's method is.

He told me about it several months ago and now after 3 batches of instruments with some of them with the most difficult to fill pores I'd never go back to the epoxy method.

[Trevor Gore]

A question to both Nigel and Allen:

Do you have any concerns regarding the longevity of CA as a finish?

I ask because I finished an internal door knob with CA over a year ago, it gets handled multiple times a day and the finish is holding up fine.

On the other hand, at the same time, I finished another piece of the same wood and left it outside. The finish was effectively destroyed after less than a week, whereas an epoxy or varnish finish would have lasted a year or two outdoors.

I realise that not much science was involved in this "test", and guitars don't see much outdoor life, but as a sort of rough accelerated life test it left me reluctant to use CA as a finish. Also, I suspect not all CAs are created equal.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

[Allen]

I'm not using it as a finish.

I seal the timber with Starbond thin CA and scuff it back. Very much like you would with Shellac. Use the Timbermate and sand it back. Then nothing more than what you would call a spit coat of the Starbond thin CA. Then scuff that back before applying my polyurethane finish.

Two applications of the Timbermate with a sand back between applications has filled even the enormous pores in Bubinga.

I think the thin CA is saturating the Timbermate in the pores and sets it. Much like you could fill a void with sanding dust and CA. So no shrink back or moving with fluctuations in humidity like I had experienced when just using Timbermate.

I suppose it would be interesting to try the same with using Shellac instead of the Starbond. I followed Nigel's instructions and so far haven't found a reason to experiment further.

[kiwigeo]

I've tried a bunch of pore filling methods. I've concluded that pore filling is very much like french polishing...there's no "best" technique....you settle on the method that works for you.

[nkforster]

A question to both Nigel and Allen:

Do you have any concerns regarding the longevity of CA as a finish?

I ask because I finished an internal door knob with CA over a year ago, it gets handled multiple times a day and the finish is holding up fine.

On the other hand, at the same time, I finished another piece of the same wood and left it outside. The finish was effectively destroyed after less than a week, whereas an epoxy or varnish finish would have lasted a year or two outdoors.

I realise that not much science was involved in this "test", and guitars don't see much outdoor life, but as a sort of rough accelerated life test it left me reluctant to use CA as a finish. Also, I suspect not all CAs are created equal.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

To some extent you've answered your own question Trevor.

But in truth, I can't answer it.

I remember years ago when someone was struggling to bend sides, I suggested they try what I do - use fabric softener for tricky sets. The person had questions about how it might effect glueing, finishing etc, I replied I'd done it for twenty years and never had an issue. Their response was "But what about after 21 years?" Well, it's about 35 years I've been using it now, and still no issues, but what about 36 years? I don't know.

That said, folk have been using CA to pore fill for years and I've not heard of any issues. This method is just a lot less messier and quicker than CA and wood dust. But in essence, it's the same. And as Allen said, this is a pore fill. Not a finish. It never gets handled.

Give it a try. You'll be amazed at both how well it works and how quick and easy it is.

[Trevor Gore]

Thanks, Nigel and Allen.

Cheers, Trevor.

[kiwigeo]

On the list of things to do.....a few trial pore fills using CA.

[56nortondomy]

I tried it today on some NGRW and it seems to have worked pretty good.
Wayne

[nkforster]

A question to both Nigel and Allen:

Do you have any concerns regarding the longevity of CA as a finish?

I ask because I finished an internal door knob with CA over a year ago, it gets handled multiple times a day and the finish is holding up fine.

On the other hand, at the same time, I finished another piece of the same wood and left it outside. The finish was effectively destroyed after less than a week, whereas an epoxy or varnish finish would have lasted a year or two outdoors.

I realise that not much science was involved in this "test", and guitars don't see much outdoor life, but as a sort of rough accelerated life test it left me reluctant to use CA as a finish. Also, I suspect not all CAs are created equal.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

Just a thought Trevor - you could do this without CA glue. Spray a light coat of whatever lacquer you use on bare wood. Apply timbermate, sand back, spray another light coat to seal it in, then carry on with your regular spraying regime. Its about lightly sealing the bare wood, applying TM, then sealing in the TM before applying more lacquer.

[Mark McLean]

If I don't spray stuff, would shellac - TM - shellac do the same. I guess this is a question I should answer for myself. Thanks for the inspiration.