How much time does it take you to build an Acoustic?

[Deems Davis]

I am curious as to what the experience of this group is. I'm new to this, just finishing up my 2nd SS, and while I'm loving the process/s I get a bit frustrated in how long it takes me. I have learned that my "build time" is related to the skills or lack there of and the greatest part being not necessarily the " What to do" part (many thanks to Trevor and Gerard for this) but the "How to do it" (using the right tools and using them properly) and I'm hopeful that as I get more experience under my belt that productivity will rise. I'm "retired" so the time element is not a survival situation.
So I'm curious as to what I should hope to aspire to when I've got skills mastered and many more builds logged.

For those who are much further down this road than I:

1. How long does it take you to build an acoustic? (elapsed time or hours/days)

2. Was there are point where improving your skills didn't result in increased productivity? if so how many builds in were you?

As always, greatly appreciate all feedback

Deems

[Nick]

1. I work full time (on a different vocation) so when I'm in full build mode it can be 4-5 hours in the evenings and the same on a Saturday so roughly 24-30 hrs/week for three months so between 285-360 hours
2. No there hasn't been a point for me because as my skills have increased I've found new features to add to the guitar (because I have the confidence that I'm not going to cock anything up or at least minimize the possibility of doing that!) so that adds to the build time. Stuff such as inlays, as my skills improve I'll make them more intricate (both shell and wood), better fitting or I'll add that slightly more difficult purfling strip and so it goes on. I won't put a number on the builds because I'm never at a point where I would be so brash as to say I have all the skills down, I'm always trying to improve with every build, I may have a certain skill down better than somebody just starting out but I've never stopped trying to get better at it. The road to perfection isn't linear, it's logarithmic.

[Deems Davis]

The road to perfection isn't linear, it's logarithmic.

!!!

[Steve.Toscano]

1. How long does it take you to build an acoustic? (elapsed time or hours/days)

I kept a bit of a log for my most recent classical build, was around 105hrs give or take a few. That's to the point of string up. I string mine up prior to final finishing or sanding and with only a rough setup (call it impatient, i call it 'testing' incase i need to make modifications) .

My gut feeling is the 105hrs is about normal for me for either classical or steel string. By the way: I dont finish or do final setup of the instruments myself - i prefer to pay someone who is much better at these tasks. Most my build dont have any inlay work either.

I'm building around 5 hours on most sat/sundays each, and put in about 5 - 6 hours at nights throughout the week. So 16hrs/week on a good week.
With some weekends off i can get a guitar to my string up point in a bit over 2months. The above classical i started on January 10th, strung it up last weekend, but was away for 3 weeks in Feb.

Quickest I've ever done was a classical which i got from lumber to string up in 9 days. That was over the 2014/15 new year period.
Took it to my finisher and setup guys, had it back in my hands, nitro finished and playing beautifully 17 days after starting it.

I'm a bit more traditional to most builders these days.
I have limited power tools and jigs, in fact the ONLY electricity powered tools i use during my builds are: a thicknesser, bandsaw, & palm router (only for binding channels).
The only jigs i use is: a solera, back brace radiusing jig, and a fret slotting jig. I dont even use a mold - never needed to.
WHY? I can do most tasks by hand quicker and to practically the same accuracy then i can with a power tool. That and i have limited space

[blackalex1952]

To add to the questions-Is it faster/more efficient to have multiple builds going on at any one time? I am hoping to get more bench space down the track so that I can do a mini production line of sorts.To my thinking, this would save time setting up tools individually for each job, it would allow me to get "in the zone" for different stages of a build, eg brace carving, inlay work, fretting, finish spraying, polishing...the tools are on the bench and not being constantly changed, the blades are sharpened for a "run" of jobs, fences and jigs set up for repetitive tasks...also a good idea for experimenting with slight variations in bracing, timbers etc, ie. easier to compare, or to get consistency.

[kiwigeo]

For a conventional classical or steel string and assuming I get a continuous run in the workshop....200 hours. If I'm working at my day job where I'm away for weeks at a time it takes longer. Latest build is a fan fret Gore OM cutaway.....alot more time spent on this guitar due to numerous modifications required to the original plans and had to make a new top after original top main top frequency came in too low.

[Steve.Toscano]

To add to the questions-Is it faster/more efficient to have multiple builds going on at any one time?

Definitely is. Mostly because as you pointed out in your post.
I'm not lucky enough to have the space to do it this way.

A good mate of mine builds 'parts' then assembles, then finishes.
His yearly process is as follows:
January - February (parts) : makes a bunch of bridges, roughs in necks, shapes and slots fretboards, thicknesses tops/backs/sides, joins tops and backs, makes all braces & kerfing etc etc.
March - August (assembly): self explanatory
August - Dec: Sanding, finishing, setups.

He's making 20+ guitars a year and only has 3 models. Not doing many commission builds(1-2/yr).

It works great for him. Personally this way would bore the cr@p out of me. But he's doing purely as a job/business and at that volume it's the only way to make it economical.
I visited his workshop last year, kid you not, he literally has 16 go bar decks.

In saying that there's no reason couldnt do the same with small volume, it would still cut a fair bit of time out of each build.

[simonm]

….
I visited his workshop last year, kid you not, he literally has 16 go bar decks.
….

Sounds like enough for 200+ a year!

However, I assume that the decks are model specific so it may not be "as many" as it seems at first.

I think unless you can command superstar premium prices, a builder needs to be under 100 hours per build all up to make a living.

A German builder told me once that to sell a German guitar retail in Germany for 800-1,000 (tax (20%), retailer, distributer margin etc) it can't have more than about 5 hours labour in it.

At the other end of the scale, if you look at Mr Hauser III and his current serial number, it looks like his average is about 18 guitars a year for the last 35-40 at very nice prices too. That is assuming that his serial numbers began at 0 which is of course not a given.

[peter.coombe]

I would estimate around 100hrs for an acoustic guitar. That is about the same time it takes me to make an arch top mandolin so the prices are the same and material costs are roughly similar. It has been difficult to get the labour times down because over the years I have speeded up the construction part, but now spend more time on finishing so has not been much change overall. If you are spending more time than that it is not really a viable business and even at 100hrs is marginal.

[simso]

To me, the time it takes to make a guitar comes down to how efficiently your workshop is setup

Example, to cut a fretboard

Scenario 1 wheel out thickness or drum sander and sand to desired height
Mark out fret positions and then cut with hand saw and alignment cutting jig
Hand cut each fret position to height
Finish time approximately 60-70 minutes


Scenario 2 thicknesser drum sander permanently setup, cross cut saw with jig for slotting
Feed board through thicknesser
Double side tape board to jig and cross cut powered saw
Finish time approximatley 8 minutes


Scenario 3 cnc
Vacuum attach board to cnc bed
Run shaping and fret cutting program
Finish time approximatley 30-40 minutes but physical hands on time about 5 minutes

These are just an example of varying differences from 5 minutes to 70 minutes on just one process.

So if I say I can make an acoustic guitar in 8hrs it would only be becuase of tolling setup, if I said 40 hrs then my tooling setup is not as efficient as the 8hr setup, if I said it takes me 200 hrs, then my setup is not as efficient as either of the two setups

Add into this ones personal preferences and skill, it is impossible to give a true figure that reflects everybody

Answer - build one and that's how long it takes for you and your setup

Steve

[rocket]

Takes me a very long time to build a guitar,, two at a time i can build two a year, and like others in here i have other employment / 40 hours a week so i can usually devote about 15- 18 hours a week to building so the maths says it takes me 350-400 hours per, i'd be very poor if i was trying to make a living from this but this is a hobby and i love it, i sell a few and it pays for it's self plus some.

Rod.

[hepikohetaniwha]

Judging by what everyone is saying, the answer that you give to this question seems to be related to the answer that you would give to a previous thread, "what is handmade?"

The more your guitars are 'handmade', the more time they take, perhaps. So maybe when you are asked, "are your guitars handmade?" you can say, "yes, just look how long each one takes me"

[Eddie]

I attended one of Robbie O'Briens 8 day steel string classes a couple of yeare ago. Under Robbies guidance I built a guitar from raw wood to french polished and strung up in the 8 days. A couple of days were 10+ hrs and a couple were less than 8 hrs. So 64-70 hrs is possible but that does not include any tool setup, sharpening, etc time.
Btw... This is my first post here. I have been lurking here for years. I'm for Texas, USA.
Eddie