Leveling frets
Leveling frets
Hi guys just have a question regarding frett dressing, in order to level all my frets will i need to loosen the truss rod to un tention the neck after the strings are removed?
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Re: Leveling frets
You'll need to get the neck straight, that may mean loosening the stussrod, or adjusting it to achieve a straight fretboard.
Rod.
Rod.
Like I said before the crash, " Hit the bloody thing, it won't hit ya back
www.octiganguitars.com
www.octiganguitars.com
Re: Leveling frets
As Rod said's, get the neck straight with the use of the truss rod for fret levelling, you only wind the truss rod completley loose if your going to re-profile the board again, any warpage at this point, I bend the neck with presses to get rid off.
Re: Leveling frets
If you want good/accurate results you need a jig that simulates string tension on the neck while the strings are off too.
Re: Leveling frets
Sorry matt, I dis-agree.
I think the setting up of the neck to replicate a strung up instrument is so over rated. I have the gear and I used to do it that way because the experts overseas swore by it. String it up, dial in the indicators , unstring it, twist and troque the head to replicate tension and so forth, Now I find it a pain in the $#% time wise and I have not seen any gains from the previous ways I did it.
Is it better, theoretically yes, but personally I dont think there are any advantages over a well supported neck whilst filing, if there is an improvement in the action gained by this method then I really think its becuase theres something else wrong with the instrument which has not been addressed.
All of course - In my opinion
I think the setting up of the neck to replicate a strung up instrument is so over rated. I have the gear and I used to do it that way because the experts overseas swore by it. String it up, dial in the indicators , unstring it, twist and troque the head to replicate tension and so forth, Now I find it a pain in the $#% time wise and I have not seen any gains from the previous ways I did it.
Is it better, theoretically yes, but personally I dont think there are any advantages over a well supported neck whilst filing, if there is an improvement in the action gained by this method then I really think its becuase theres something else wrong with the instrument which has not been addressed.
All of course - In my opinion
Re: Leveling frets
Dont fret (Matt Bach wrote:If you want good/accurate results you need a jig that simulates string tension on the neck while the strings are off too.
) Stewmac will soon come up with a jig that allows you to do a refret without taking the strings off the instrument.Martin
Re: Leveling frets
True - I've certainly done without a jig and had good results in the past, and it is definitely a bit of a pain in the ass using it, but if I've got a guitar with a bendy/noodle neck, the jig at least gives me confidence that what I'm doing is going to end up perfect, especially if there's not much fret left. Just a bit of insurance really, and that's worth more to me than the extra 30 mins it takes to jig it up.
Re: Leveling frets
kiwigeo wrote:Dont fret (
Re: Leveling frets
Are you talking about one or two pesky frets that just need a touch up, or the entire neck? The odd fret that is causing a buzz can be tracked down with a fret rocker and addressed individually. Lot's of times it doesn't even need the strings pulled off.
Re: Leveling frets
Sorry I assumed voitty (OP) was doing the whole neck leveling. I don't use the jig if it's just for a couple of high frets that need attention, but I will if the whole neck needs doing.
Re: Leveling frets
I have a 600 x 600 x 32mm thick MDF drop leaf working surface hinged from main bench mid way along the glue room. When propped in place this leaf forms the base of the gobar deck. The top of the deck is suspended by 4 x 7/8" all-thread rods fixed through two central ceiling joist, which are cross linked to all adjacent joist by two 3 x2's bolted on top and running the length of the room at right angles spreading load.... The point is that both the upper and lower deck of this fixture are quite stable and this is an important consideration to keep in mind when reading some of the following.
When I am decking frets, I clamp a sturdy 1200mm aluminium spirit level, on edge, to the 'top' surface of the upper deck securing it each side of the 600mm wide upper plate with clamps so it is well supported. Setting the spirit level near flush one side leaves a very rigid overhang of app <600mm at the other. With the drop leaf locked into the upright position, the guitar is secured into a 4 point body holding jig used in binding operations and many other task....you would build one of these anyway if you were doing any reasonable amount of guitar work. Once in the body holder, with the aid of a plumb bob the headstock is aligned with the overhanging end of the spirit level and then the body holder jig's base is quick clamped at four points on the lower gobar deck/drop leaf.
I have a length of app 25mm wide nylon webbing of that kind most often seen securing motorcycle crash helmets to the heads of temporary earthling, sort of seat belt webbing material. This material was chosen as it offers next to no stretch. The webbing is fitted with a good length of either hook or loop material that has been stitched to the appropriate side of an end. The truss rod is backed off a tad and the neck is 'very' carefully checked for meerkat frets....these are those nasty little buggers that are loose..or sort of loose and if you don't identify and secure them, you may find yourself grinding far too much metal away for naught as they can be pushed down into their slot as the sanding apparatus comes in contact and all but miss the abrasive only to then pop back up at a time of their choosing to cause a buzz...An old trick for new players and this can lead the uneducated to believe they had botched their first attempt at decking and now need to level again....you can't do that too often but that fret can keep ducking down under the beam as often as it likes..so its better to 'take your time' to find the loose ones 'before' you start rather than when your pulling them all to do a complete refret....back OT....When all is good to go, the velcro strap is slung over the end of the overhanging spirit level and under the headstock of the guitar to form a loop.
A shop made aluminium or perspex straightedge pre-slotted to the appropriate scale length with a standard tablesaw blade set deep enough to clear the frets is then placed on the FB surface. The headstock is moved gently with the finger tips to close the gap and level the fretboard surface to the straightedge. A quick adjustment of the TR may be required to level out the neck evenly along the full length and when satisfied, the headstock is then secured in place using the adjustable webbing sling....mine has "D" rings installed to assist the fine tune.
To 'lock' the neck in position, the strap is clamped to the headstock so it can't slide around. If required, I have also used a stout gobar fitted with rubber stoppers each end between the top of the headstock, and the underside of the spirit level overhang. The spirit level has abrasive glued to that under surface to prevent slippage of the gobar and a bit of masking tape applied to the headstock prevents any marring from the other end of the gobar which can be overlaid with double sided tape if you like to secure the gobar that end. I have found the webbing to be soft enough not to bother with just as long as you avoid friction burn of the finish when the strap is being fitted or removed....any concern for anything 'that' precious can be addressed by a bit more tape.
Once set up, I deck the frets with an 18" manufactured quartz polymer beam that has been lapped flat to match an "A" grade precision engineers plate..so yes its very flat, but that's not the main attraction for me. The truth is you immediately blow all of that .00002" precision perfection of the beam out of the water as soon as you stick abrasive paper to it's surface....so no, for me not so much about 'that' level of precision, its nice to have of course but its the flatness 'and' the weight combined that make it my levelling tool of choice. Coming in at app 1kg or perhaps a little more, the 18" is hefty...(as I recall the 20" run @ about 1250 grams) Such mass means that these beam requires 'no' downward pressure at all in use. You simply slide them back and forth carefully working the radius and the fret grind can't help but be even end to end. Add to that the fact this man made stone will not warp, take up moisture, expand and or contract to any measurable degree worthy of consideration, these exie..(app $45usd + shipping) overly anal plastic boondies shall remain a.......'rock solid'...
...and reliable tool for as long as the person holding it in their hands has some understanding of what it is, and how it is meant to be used.
By the way, in reference to the Stewmac 'neck stretch'in fretdeck'in jigolator' with the dial indicators and all those slid'in adjustable bits and bobs below...I had an extension at one stage which came out from the lower deck to run parallel directly under the neck of the guitar to then rest upon the opposite bench. This extension board had a felt covered neck shaft cradle taken from an old capo and this was fitted to a hight adjustable bolt at the mid point on the upper surface. A single telescopic leg cannibalised from an old camera tripod was fitted directly below on the underside of the extension. The Idea of this was of course to offer a central support to help maintain the neck in a flat pane and prevent flex or deformation of the neck shaft during the levelling operation....Well it works and all, but..... maybe I'm just a luck bastard because I found that buggering around with it was rarely if ever required unless, as Steve suggested above,....there is something more amiss which needs to be identified and rectified 'before' you start grinding away at 'anything' on that guitar.
Cheers
Kim
When I am decking frets, I clamp a sturdy 1200mm aluminium spirit level, on edge, to the 'top' surface of the upper deck securing it each side of the 600mm wide upper plate with clamps so it is well supported. Setting the spirit level near flush one side leaves a very rigid overhang of app <600mm at the other. With the drop leaf locked into the upright position, the guitar is secured into a 4 point body holding jig used in binding operations and many other task....you would build one of these anyway if you were doing any reasonable amount of guitar work. Once in the body holder, with the aid of a plumb bob the headstock is aligned with the overhanging end of the spirit level and then the body holder jig's base is quick clamped at four points on the lower gobar deck/drop leaf.
I have a length of app 25mm wide nylon webbing of that kind most often seen securing motorcycle crash helmets to the heads of temporary earthling, sort of seat belt webbing material. This material was chosen as it offers next to no stretch. The webbing is fitted with a good length of either hook or loop material that has been stitched to the appropriate side of an end. The truss rod is backed off a tad and the neck is 'very' carefully checked for meerkat frets....these are those nasty little buggers that are loose..or sort of loose and if you don't identify and secure them, you may find yourself grinding far too much metal away for naught as they can be pushed down into their slot as the sanding apparatus comes in contact and all but miss the abrasive only to then pop back up at a time of their choosing to cause a buzz...An old trick for new players and this can lead the uneducated to believe they had botched their first attempt at decking and now need to level again....you can't do that too often but that fret can keep ducking down under the beam as often as it likes..so its better to 'take your time' to find the loose ones 'before' you start rather than when your pulling them all to do a complete refret....back OT....When all is good to go, the velcro strap is slung over the end of the overhanging spirit level and under the headstock of the guitar to form a loop.
A shop made aluminium or perspex straightedge pre-slotted to the appropriate scale length with a standard tablesaw blade set deep enough to clear the frets is then placed on the FB surface. The headstock is moved gently with the finger tips to close the gap and level the fretboard surface to the straightedge. A quick adjustment of the TR may be required to level out the neck evenly along the full length and when satisfied, the headstock is then secured in place using the adjustable webbing sling....mine has "D" rings installed to assist the fine tune.
To 'lock' the neck in position, the strap is clamped to the headstock so it can't slide around. If required, I have also used a stout gobar fitted with rubber stoppers each end between the top of the headstock, and the underside of the spirit level overhang. The spirit level has abrasive glued to that under surface to prevent slippage of the gobar and a bit of masking tape applied to the headstock prevents any marring from the other end of the gobar which can be overlaid with double sided tape if you like to secure the gobar that end. I have found the webbing to be soft enough not to bother with just as long as you avoid friction burn of the finish when the strap is being fitted or removed....any concern for anything 'that' precious can be addressed by a bit more tape.
Once set up, I deck the frets with an 18" manufactured quartz polymer beam that has been lapped flat to match an "A" grade precision engineers plate..so yes its very flat, but that's not the main attraction for me. The truth is you immediately blow all of that .00002" precision perfection of the beam out of the water as soon as you stick abrasive paper to it's surface....so no, for me not so much about 'that' level of precision, its nice to have of course but its the flatness 'and' the weight combined that make it my levelling tool of choice. Coming in at app 1kg or perhaps a little more, the 18" is hefty...(as I recall the 20" run @ about 1250 grams) Such mass means that these beam requires 'no' downward pressure at all in use. You simply slide them back and forth carefully working the radius and the fret grind can't help but be even end to end. Add to that the fact this man made stone will not warp, take up moisture, expand and or contract to any measurable degree worthy of consideration, these exie..(app $45usd + shipping) overly anal plastic boondies shall remain a.......'rock solid'...
...and reliable tool for as long as the person holding it in their hands has some understanding of what it is, and how it is meant to be used.By the way, in reference to the Stewmac 'neck stretch'in fretdeck'in jigolator' with the dial indicators and all those slid'in adjustable bits and bobs below...I had an extension at one stage which came out from the lower deck to run parallel directly under the neck of the guitar to then rest upon the opposite bench. This extension board had a felt covered neck shaft cradle taken from an old capo and this was fitted to a hight adjustable bolt at the mid point on the upper surface. A single telescopic leg cannibalised from an old camera tripod was fitted directly below on the underside of the extension. The Idea of this was of course to offer a central support to help maintain the neck in a flat pane and prevent flex or deformation of the neck shaft during the levelling operation....Well it works and all, but..... maybe I'm just a luck bastard because I found that buggering around with it was rarely if ever required unless, as Steve suggested above,....there is something more amiss which needs to be identified and rectified 'before' you start grinding away at 'anything' on that guitar.
Cheers
Kim
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