Editing and deleting posts

[ProfChris]

I fear I may be the mouthpiece who specialises in international copyright law online - for the record, Chris Reed, Professor of Electronic Commerce Law, Queen Mary University of London. Oh, and I build the occasional ukulele which is why I'm here.

Simplistically, but pretty accurate for almost every country in the world:

1. You own copyright in the words you write and the pictures you take.

2. Posting to a forum doesn't change those ownership rights (unless you have agreed otherwise). It does give the forum operator a licence to display those posts on the forum. It's uncertain whether, if you leave the forum, you can terminate that licence and have your posts deleted - I'd say not, as a general rule, but a court would have to decide what the unspoken agreement on this was. The licence will be limited to use on the forum, in the way you would expect when you posted. Again, subject to contrary agreeement in the forum rules.

3. This doesn't give anyone else the right to do anything with your posts. They may have a right under general copyright law (for Australia this would be the "fair dealing" provisions of your Copyright Act; for the US "fair use", which is a wider concept) to do limited things.

That's what the law provides.

In practice, you can't afford to enforce your copyright by going to court. My guess is that a fairly simple defended copyright law suit will cost you in the region of Aus$ 50,000. You might get some of it back if you win, but not all, even if the person you sue is good for the damages and costs.

So in practice, once you've posted you've lost control. However, those who run boards like this are concerned not to act unlawfully, so if your posts are re-used elsewhere a complaint to the forum operator may get the misuse stopped. There's no real point chasing the miscreant - too expensive.

Or, more simply, the forum owner is God. If God says "all play nice" then we must do so, or be banished to outer darkness while the evidence of our misdeeds remains on the forum for all to see, licensed and therefore not in breach of copyright.

Here endeth the first lecture.

[duh Padma]

So in practice, once you've posted you've lost control.....

Or, more simply, the forum owner is God. If God says "all play nice" then we must do so, or be banished to outer darkness while the evidence of our misdeeds remains on the forum for all to see, licensed and therefore not in breach of copyright.

Here endeth the first lecture.

Thank you ProfChris,

Lost control eh!

Me figured that one out on the very first day me joined me very first forum long time ago way back when the web first started to be spun.

Humanities territorial greed based fear driven conquer, control and dominate mentality is deep. It actually runs the planet.

Is a hard pill for many to swallow, this loosing control of our posts.

Me don't like taking pills so me changed me thinking regarding ownership and
Intellectual Property you know ~ to bring it more in line with whats really moving around the planet.

The following is an excerpt from

Protection of Intellectual Property. (the full rap can be found here
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2910)

Intellectual Property... Well it is or was a great idea. Works very well for the current model of the greedy profit based monetary system that is now exposing itself as the rapist of our sovereign rights and the planets wealth. This system in now in its death throws and is gonna fight like hell to hang on until its last breath...such is the way of a dieing beast. Mother earth can no longer support the wanton destruction of its natural resources.

The world wide web has taught us that ideas and information are free and should be shared by all for the good of all and not by a few for their own greedy little ends. As such the collective consciousness of this planet is now moving into an egalitarian, resource based economy.

Speaking very personally and firmly believing in this new economic model, you will no longer find a copyright, registration or patent numbers or symbols on any of the paintings, builds, drawings of instruments or their plans of construction or any of the innovative ideas that have come through duh Padma . Feel free to use, copy, build and share as thou wilt. (acknowledgment of its origin is nice but not necessary)

Our individual sovereignty, life, breath and ideas comes from the creator, and as such I, me, duh Padma feels, thinks and believes the current economic model exemplifies the supreme form of fear and greed that drives our egos to claim intellectual property rights.

The emerging change in our planets collective consciousness is gonna go through birthing pains. However the shared custodianship of earths resources is the future model and the cornerstone for the golden age of global peace that is dawning.

Resistance is futile. Change is inevitable. Expect it!

Here in endith duh Padmas rant on intellectual property.

blessings
duh Padma


PS:

Do duh Padma like it that Bob eliminated the members ability to edit their posts...HELL NO! Me liked the freedom to go back and clean up me posts.
Is duh Padma gonna bitch rant and rave about it. HELL NO!

So me ask you Bob, please change it back and I for one will not abuse it.

Thus spake duh Padma.

.

[Kim]

Thanks for the clarification Chris.....and how's that for a turn of the cards...the ANZLF just got free 'qualified' advise from a Uke Building Professor of Electronic Commerce Law...the wonders of this place will never cease.

Cheers

Kim

[Bruce McC]

"......the wonders of this place will never cease."

What a great way to describe this forum. Thank you Bob, the moderators and the volunteers.

[kiwigeo]

Thanks for the input Chris...

[Chalks]

Yey! Chris is a marathon runner!

Chalks

[kiwigeo]

Yey! Chris is a marathon runner!

Chalks

Professor of Marathonology?

[ProfChris]

Yey! Chris is a marathon runner!

Chalks

Either this is an Antipodean expression (of approval I hope) or you're thinking of another Chris. I don't run - what are taxis for? Though, tomorrow I hope to fly about 200km in my glider - beats the marathon runners and I can do it sitting down!

[kiwigeo]

I don't run - what are taxis for?

Here in Australia you generally take a taxi when you dont want to get to where youre going to

[Dominic]

By not letting me control my own posts, to correct spelling, or explain a difficult concept better, or add a better picture, I am being censored. Censored because how I put up and maintain content I create is being controlled for reasons to do with how the rulers are perceived. Sounds like good old dictator style censorship to me. Might not be technically so but putting aside rules about copyright etc it is hard to see it differently. I am not talking about saying something bad about another person, forum, wood supplier, guitar etc. I fully agree that people should be very careful, and take time to cool down before they post anything that might upset someone else. And I don't care about general chit chat or joking around.

But that is not what this forum is for. It is to provide and seek advice about building stringed instruments. And when we post advice, that advice is attributed to the poster. If we say up instead of down, left instead of right, top instead of bottom, widget instead of thingamyjig or ugitar instead of guitar it would be good to be able to fix it up.

This is good for us as builders, for our reputation and credibility particularly given many of us trying to sell guitars. We don't know who is reading what we write, could a potential customer think we are hopeless because we can't tell our widgets from our thingamyjigs? Adding a clarifying comment or correction 20 posts further down is like a book publishing all it corrections at the back in a second edition. The mistake is still there.

And better posts means the forum becomes a better, clearer source of information for people. Take tutorials or jig explanations. Rather than having to read through 20 posts of ‘thanks for the tute’, ‘cool jig’ and jokes about sheep to find a part that says, In my tute I said “put the widget into the thingamyjig but PLEASE DON’T DO THIS, YOUR GUITAR WILL EXPLODE AND YOUR WIFE WILL LEAVE YOU”
Or what about where I write, now take the RED wire and insert it into the widget when that would most certainly end badly for all concerned, maybe even the forum owner.

There are millions of reasons why we should be able to edit (correct) our posts and not really any reason I can tell why we need to be prevented from doing so as long as it doesn’t appear Bob or the mods are censoring posts. I just think the ban on editing implies that as a community we can’t be trusted to pull ourselves back into line when things go awry. It is a little draconian.
Cheers
Dom

[jeffhigh]

Two reasons I can think of FOR time limits on editing

-On another forum I had an idiot make some crude and abusive comments about me then edit his posts and claim that he had never said any such thing. Unfortunately for him the forum software quoted his message in a notification of reply so I did have a record.
So editing limits do tend to keep people responsible for what they say

-If you edit your post after others have commented, it can make their comments incomprehensible

[Kim]

Dom,

If everyone who visits internet forums only stayed on the topics they are set up to deal with, then what you suggest would make perfect sense and restrictions would not need to be applied. But the reality is that this is clearly not the case, and whilst it may seem harsh and dictatorial to apply measure to all to address the actions of few, there is simply no other way to manage it.

In a situation which allows an author to make a 'corrective' post in which they can quote themselves and point out any error they may have made that had not been detected and corrected within the given time frame, your position that this measure is a form of censorship is drawing a long bow indeed.

I think people should understand that this is not something we wanted to do, it is something we 'had' to do to address a problem we have identified. It should also be considered, especially by you as a professional economist Dom, that none of the admin team are afforded 'any' form of income or reward for providing this place of exchange to those who participate here. In simple terms, this forum generates 'NO' income whatsoever. It only generates costs that are absorbed in their entirety by Bob Connor.

On that understanding, if we are to provide this place of exchange for no reward whatsoever, we are going to do so in a way that 'we' deem to be the easiest for us. Quite frankly the simple case is that we, the administrators of the ANZLF, simply do not have the time to be repeatedly explaining ourselves at every move simply because this forum does not fit the model held in the mind's eye of every user. The fact is that we are growing quite tired of those who continue to view this place as something that has an obligation to conform to some sort of 'customer focus charter' that could only apply if they were a 'paying' customer. That is not 'our' model here, and to be completely frank and open, we find the ungratefulness of some members who use the free service and time we offer to this community to level accusations at us, openly challenge our decisions, seek to exploit what we give freely for their own personal gain, or make suggestions to raise suspicion that some form of underlying conspiratorial agenda may be behind what we do here quite breathtaking, when all that we 'really' want is what's best for this forum as a whole, and what's best to allow 'us' to run it that way.

If anyone is having huge problem with how things are done here, you really don't need to click the link....really, you don't. Dictatorial? Why yes, I suppose it is...but what do you expect for the price?

P.S. That is a rhetorical question and requires no reply. I think it is time to get back 'on topic' as the recent changes to the edit function will not be altered for the foreseeable future.

Cheers to all and thank you for your understanding.

Kim

[Pete Brown]

They seem pretty obvious, but here are a couple of precautions I always try to apply to my own posts (and emails too for that matter):

- If you're hot under the collar at all, for whatever reason, cool down before you post. Before you click the Submit button, take a minute to review what you've written, assessing whether your message is inflammatory or open to misinterpretation and actually adds something to the discussion.
- Use the Preview button to view your message as it will appear once posted, for spelling and grammatical errors and, most importantly, the success with which it imparts what it is you set out to say.
- Once your message has passed muster, submit it and review it yet again within the time allowed.

I wonder whether unrestricted editing of our posts is a luxury of most use to those who are prone to post hastily or are not apt to check spelling and grammar.

The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it
-- Omar Khayyam

Cheers
Pete

[charangohabsburg]

The relevant rules here, direct from the manufacturer of the open source software you are currently using: http://www.phpbb.com/rules/

Ben jamin trolling the ANZLF? Shame on you!