Electricity converson from the States

[xray]

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"Originally Posted on:"Tue Aug 10, 2010 "


Quick question for any sparkies out there.
Scenario. Going to get a bandsaw from the states. Motor is 220v 60htz. Electricity is now on in shed with 15amp power outlets. What do i need to do to gt it t work with our elctricity here? Can i have a sparky change over the cord from the motor? Any answers welcome

[Puff]

Hertz is frequency. The volts etc look fine but check with your local power authority/supplier as to what "frequency" you are getting.

[Puff]

Sorry mate the chord has nothing to do with it -tis what flows through the cord and if your power supply is alternating at that frequency you should be fine. If it's big grunt/wattage/horsepower you might need a heavier fuse/circuit breaker. Have a natter with a sparkie at the pub or the sports club - usually reasonable sorts.

[liam_fnq]

Quote:

Hertz is frequency. The volts etc look fine but check with your local power authority/supplier as to what "frequency" you are getting.

You are getting 50hz. The same as me and everyone else in Australia (as well as Europe, Africa, Asia, Middle East and I think South America. Pretty much everywhere that's not the U.S.)

The speed of the machine is dictated by the supply frequency. I think at 50hz a 60hz designed machine will run slightly slower.

The best way to work out if this will be a prob is to talk to someone who has American machines run through a 110v/240v transformer. They have done the 60hz machine on 50hz supply experiment for us. I think Bob does this. could be wrong.

Quote:

Sorry mate the cord has nothing to do with it -tis what flows through the cord and if your power supply is alternating at that frequency you should be fine. If it's big grunt/wattage/horsepower you might need a heavier fuse/circuit breaker. Have a natter with a sparkie at the pub or the sports club - usually reasonable sorts.

The cord is quite important. It wont fit in the outlet if you don't get it changed Any sparky can change it for you. the going rate is a six pack.

15amp outlets should be on their own circuit with a dedicated (prob 20amp) circuit breaker. It going to have to be a big bandsaw to trip this.

let us know how you go

[Bob Connor]

I've got small 110 volt sander running through a transformer.

Haven't really got anything to compare against but they all seem to do the job.

[jeffhigh]

This may be worth looking at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_phase

[xray]

thanks fellas, im just checkingout the possibility of importing a saw from the states and need to look at customs next after the electricity thing. Greedy friggas anything over 1000 and its open season on importers. cheers forth heads up, as usual liam you have been most helpful.

[Kim]

Xray,

I could not imagine what freight will be for a one off the size of a bandsaw. Machinery importers generally buy per shipping container full from a manufacturer or smaller shops will form a coop just to bring stuff in by the container and then split it out as this keeps cost down. Unless you go through a freight handler in the USA that will pack and charge for only a portion of a seatainer, I think you will find bringing in such a large machine will not be viable once you add freight and customs, and just remember, duty is calculated and payable on what you paid for the item + freight + insurance + any other handling and inspection fees etc, and once they have that totaled, they then add GST on top of the lot..'including' their own duty and fees. Brutal stuff.

[Localele]

I can't imagine you will even get close to a reasonable price to ship one saw over. Bearing in mind that most of the saws in the US come out of China and Taiwan and are available here in different colours it would seem to be easier to buy one here.

[tim mullin]

I run a variety of North American machinery here with 110-120, 220-240VAC motors. The lower voltage stuff gets run at 110VAC through a 1500 watt (edited content, more correctly described as 1.5 KVA) step-down transformer (cheaper if bought in NA). My tablesaw has the usual dual-voltage 110-220 motor (common on NA machines above 1HP) and is set to 220 (wiring diagram usually inside the motor's connection cover makes it easy for anyone to set the voltage jumpers). On a 15-amp outlet, you can easily connect up to 2.5 HP saw with no worries.

Motors rated at 60Hz will run at 5/6 their rated speed on 50Hz. For example, NA machinery motors are typically 1750 rpm on 60Hz. With the 50Hz supply in Australasia (and most other places with 220VAC domestic supply), they run at 1400 rpm (does that figure sound familiar? It should, as that's a typical speed for motors sold in Australasia.) Despite running slightly slower, I've not noted any difference in power or performance.

So, on your bandsaw, all you need to do is change the plug on the cord (if the machine is supplied with one). Any sparky can do it, but it's not rocket science. Just make sure you connect the green wire to the ground lug. Beyond that, a motor could care less about how you connect the other two. Machines purchased in North America are frequently supplied without connection cords, as there are a variety of ways to connect them to supply (which is often switchable between 110 and 220).

I also run other stuff in the house through step-down transformers. About the only problems are with older applicances with AC motors, such as turntables and antique clocks, where the speed is set from the supply Hz. Most other stereo and clock motors are DC and could care less. AC-DC rectifiers seem happy at either Hz.

[kiwigeo]

Tim Mullin wrote:

The lower voltage stuff gets run at 110VAC through a 1500 amp step-down transformer.

Of course you mean 1500watts dont you??

[liam_fnq]

Transformers are usually measured in KVA.

[tim mullin]

Oops! Volts, amps, watts -- all the same thing, isn't it? Actually, transformers are usually rated in VA, although I've never figured out why.

[kiwigeo]

liam_fnq wrote:

transformers are usually measured in KVA.

Yes that is usually the case but for some reason the output on my stepdown trannie is marked in watts.

I asked the question because I didnt want xray going around trying to source a 1500 amp step down transformer.

[kiwigeo]

The relationship between KVA and KW explained here:

http://www.powerstream.com/VA-Watts.htm

[tim mullin]

liam_fnq wrote:

transformers are usually measured in KVA.

Yes that is usually the case but for some reason the output on my stepdown trannie is marked in watts.

I asked the question because I didnt want xray going around trying to source a 1500 amp step down transformer.

Thanks for the correction. I have edited post.

I'll leave the VA vs watt question to the electrical engineers in the crowd. It's true that transformers are labelled both ways, although numerically almost equivalent (but not amps). Phew, glad we got that straight!

[liam_fnq]

Quote:

I'll leave the VA vs watt question to the electrical engineers in the crowd. It's true that transformers are labelled both ways, although numerically almost equivalent (but not amps). Phew, glad we got that straight!

just a lowly electrician and for that reason the difference between W and VA makes sense to me but I'll struggle to explain it.

short answer: Watts = Volts x Amps x power factor.

VA is Volts x Amps.

The power factor is given by the load. Problem is when a transformer is designed/manufactured/sold they can't be sure what will be plugged in to it. makes it hard to work out the Watt rating.

[xray]

Thank fellas, im in a situation where i want a resaw in a smaller size and Laguna are simply awesome. Ive researched and a 3hp 14inch will resaw 14 inches. I checked out videos on their site and they are nothing short of impessive. I think it will end up costing the same as a machine over here that has the similar resaw height. I just cannot find a quality saw small enough with resaw capacity. Any suggestons welcme. Oh and for those who havent seen the resaw videos at laguna. check them out

http://www.lagunatools.com/bandsaws/bandsaw-lt14suv#


No dealers in Aus though yet!!!!

[kiwigeo]

Yes the Lagunas always get good ratings in reviews.

Jeremy is using a larger Carbatec saw for resawing and seems to get good results. I'm about to buy a 21" Carbatec saw once the boss has gotten over the shock from my recent pushbike purchase.

Anyway the bottom line is you cost out the cost of the Laguna and then compare it to whats available locally for same cost.

[xray]

I'm doing my bandsaw purchase first then time trial bike second. The boss is not happy with both yet either. Something about saving for our wedding first. Im getting that with the exchange rate and gst = customs rediculous charges i will be looking at roughly 200 extra for the laguna in comparison to a 21' saw. What i really need is a company that gets containers from california to lease some space in a shipping container. any ideas are definately welcome. Im annoyed at customs charging rediculous charges to look at things that dont need to be worried about. Like gst after freight and surcharges. Useless gits.

[jayluthier]

Having lived for 20 years in oz from '75 to '96. and now back in Washington state. i have experience with taking electrical machines both directions.

My experience is that if you have tool/appliance/electronic device that has a direct current motor, then amperes (50A or 60A, or any other value) is of no consequence since direct current only care about voltage input. so when I moved back and forth between countries, i simply had to get a 'step-down' transformer to run my US stereo equipment (220/240 volts to 110/120volts) for example in Australia. For the components that I brought back to the states that I had purchased in Australia,I found a 'step-up' transformer toe convert from 110/120 to 220/240 volts.

HOWEVER while it is true that you can run a motor designed for 60 amps with a lower amperage power source, you will find that the motor will run slower and in some cases run too hot since the revolutions of the motor are not sufficient to adequately cool the motor. In any case you have to do the voltage conversion via transformer thing..but as a consumer at least, i never found anyway to convert cycles..in your case 50amps to 60amps. I think that if you really want a U.S. made power tool you could buy the tool and replace the motor with one that is designed for Australian power. over to you.

[liam_fnq]

jayluthier wrote:

HOWEVER while it is true that you can run a motor designed for 60 amps with a lower amperage power source, you will find that the motor will run slower and in some cases run too hot since the revolutions of the motor are not sufficient to adequately cool the motor.

You're certainly correct about lowered speed at 50Hz, but did you ever actually experience a 60Hz motor failure attributed to overheating at 5/6 speed on 50Hz? I've heard this often, and it used to worry me, but after living on every continent of the planet (except Antartica), I've got a rather varied collection of things electric and never had a problem, save one hair-dryer. I doubt that any machinery motor is built to such marginal tolerance that it cares about running at 5/6 speed. I wouldn't hesitate to use machinery made for the North American market in Australasia

Now, voltage fluctuations are another matter -- working in southern Gansu Province, China, the nominal 220 VAC actually fluctutated from 160 to 360 volts -- now THAT was a challenge for electrical gear, no matter where it was made!

[jayluthier]

Maybe it's just me..but wouldn't try to run a large power tool at the wrong cycles.

[kiwigeo]

jayluthier wrote:

My experience is that if you have tool/appliance/electronic device that has a direct current motor, then amperes (50A or 60A, or any other value) is of no consequence since direct current only care about voltage input.

HOWEVER while it is true that you can run a motor designed for 60 amps with a lower amperage power source, you will find that the motor will run slower and in some cases run too hot since the revolutions of the motor are not sufficient to adequately cool the motor.


1. Most machinery runs on AC not DC...Ive certainly gomt nothing in my shop thats DC powered except the headlight on my bicycle.

2. I think youre confusing amps and hertz...two different things.

[jayluthier]

Never let real world experience go unpunished. i was giving a general explanation of voltage vs. amperage with regard to motors. i know that shop tools on AC not DC. I was also trying to make the point that transformers can convert (step-up or step down) voltage. They have no effect on current. Simply suggesting that rather than run a 60Amp motor slower at 50 amp....how about getting the right 'local' motor. that's all I was trying to say. There seemed to be a lot of confusion regarding voltage vs amps.