Take two, Khaya senegalensis

[DarwinStrings]

Thanks for the replies all.

Thanks Puff, PEG has been a consideration but only as a last resort and I was a bit concerned about how it would go with glue in the long term.

Cheers Pete all taken on board. A few points....felling in autumn/winter here would be felling at the beginning of the driest time of year and it seems to me that I need to get it dried as slowly as possible (we also don't have winter and summer here so to speak just a dry season and a wet season the dry being equivalent of your winter). Also the provenance will be known as I will either drop the tree or at least witness it fall.

I have milled and seasoned a few other species, N.T iron wood (Erythrophleum chlorostachys) Black wattle ( Acacia auriculiformis also fast growing) white beech (Gmelina schlechteri very fast growing, as fast or faster than the mahogany) and teak (tectona grandis) I had no trouble with any of these ones just sticked up and air dried out of the sun.

Thanks Tim, "you are most likely dealing with tensions in the wood" that sounds spot on especially because of the spiral growth changing it direction every year, mind you the positive of that is the beautiful figure.

Here is some more pics that may help you see what I am dealing with...

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[Image missing: 182_Khayacomp_2.jpg]

Left to right top to bottom pic 1 shows the ring shakes running parallel to the grain that is typical with fast drying but it is fairly easy to overcome.
Pic 2 show my main trouble, these little checks that run perpendicular to the grain in the stripes
pic 3 show that the star shakes are not a problem after breaking it down but there is still some ring shakes
pic 4 shows typical star shakes and ring shakes.

Jim

[Dennis Leahy]

I once saw a guy who slabbed Redwood, dried it, and sold the slabs for table tops (all the rage in the 1970's and 1980's.) I was surprised to see him spraying the wood slabs with a hose, and asked him what he was doing. He said it was to slow down the drying process, to keep the wood from checking. Might be some food for thought for this particular timber.

Dennis

[Kim]

Most hardwood mills I have seen here in the West have sprinkler systems running on fresh logs to keep them real wet until they're broken down. I have also seen huge tall stacks that crowd out well over an acre of carefully stickered jarrah that had already been converted to stock ready for joinery work such as windows and door frames etc and they too had sprinklers running on them in summer, at least the ones I could see through the back fence of the factory unit where I worked did anyhow.

That joinery shop must have taken 'years' to rotate through all that wood, but when you are talking construction joinery, the investment of the time it takes to produce a stable product is part an parcel of what the builder is paying for, and he does not get it, then your out of business.

Cheers

Kim

[Nick]

Don't quote me on it (& Christian might have a better idea) but I seem to think they keep the swamp Kauri wet too once they've pulled it out of the peat so that it's doesn't dry too quickly, after all it's been in dark, damp conditions for the last 30,000 years

[Kim]

Jim,

Have you tried resawing into sets 5 to 6mm thick while the wood is still quite green and then stickering and stacking the sets clamped under weight with the end grain sealed? I know this works OK for some wood.

Maybe you could make some of these presses and try it, for green wood you would want a few more stickers between sets for support than I have here and you would also want to make sure those bad boys could breath OK or else they will go moldy.







Cheers

Kim

[TimS]

Hi Jim,

Just got back from my drive down south! As an after thought if you have the facility to resaw into sets that would be the best approach. This would eliminate 90% of the surface checking. Possibly have 8 - 10mm thick rack sticks at about 50 - 75mm spacing with a sacrificial top cover and dead weight.

regards

Tim

[Pete Howlett]

In the UK most old country sawmills had a 'log' pond - a smallish affair where they would keep logs submerged while awaiting conversion. This was usual a 'sump' off of a brook or stream since the mill would have been powered by a waterwheel. You know, these old boys knew a thing or two because tropical logs are often kept in fast flowing river systems to help in the seasoning process...

The reson behind winter felling is the tree has no sap rising and is in effect 'dormant'. This is essential for maples and sycamores which are easily sap stained and thus are usually end reared at the start of the drying process for 3 - 6 months.

I guess as a Brit my experience is worth next to nothing since the antipodean climate is so different from ours but I am very interested to read the struggles you have What I will say is and this will work anywhere in the world - cut your back lengths in the round and then split, sides likeswise. If you do this on site it will be easier to transport and ultimately the resulting cants will be less stressed as they try to dry. 24" lengths by 9" widths for the backs and 36" by 5" for the sides.

As a cuation: If I read correctly, these trees have grown very fast. The khaya family can tend to be woolly at times and quite fibrous. Do you actually want this hassle when you are building? It's a real pain to grain fill and finish if the wood is constantly sucking out the solvents. I've also found it can be patchy... not to rain on your parade so to speak

[Localele]

Hi Jim , It is also good to cover the stack with tin to keep the rain out but in your case you will need to keep it up high to stop the heat.Or stick in some sacrificial plywood as insulation.I also wrap shade cloth around stacks to stop the wind from whistling through and drying the surface too quickly.This causes the surface checking.End sealing as well. Coat both the end and the first 2 to 3 inches to help slow down the drying.Of course the best way to do all this is inside a big shed but the precautions and shade cloth are still the same.Lot of nice timber to be had when it all works out though.

[DarwinStrings]

Cheers again guys, I will try sawing it down into thin sets then shuving it in a almost sealed box to slow the drying as much as possible and keep a close eye on the mould, I will try to get a green one just before the wet season to increase the chances of drying it slowly.

Pete, your Brit experience is appreciated and all input is food for thought. I have managed to get a good finish on this stuff for bench tops and I do love the striped figure. As for "woolly", don't let the Kiwis know that or they will be buying too much and sending the price of it up. Also there is no chance you could "rain on my parade" as it is now the dry season, no rain here, nothing but glorious sunshine and 30 degree days for 6 months (jealous? )

Jim

EDIT...Cheers Michael

[kiwigeo]

I wasn't refering to luthier's suppliers who know their customer requirements. I think this thread is about DIY supplies of wood isn't it where provenance is unknown to a degree.

I thought it was a thread about milling and drying one's own tonewood...ie where the provenance IS known.

You made a statement that it must be difficult to dry wood in Australia and New Zealand and asked you why.....ie why should it be any more difficult than the UK, US or any other country?

Cheers Martin

[kiwigeo]

I guess as a Brit my experience is worth next to nothing since the antipodean climate is so different from ours but I am very interested to read the struggles you have

A couple of comments Pete:

1. Your experience is valued no matter where you come from.
2. I think if you spent a summer in my home city of Christchurch New Zealand you probably wouldn't find it much different to summer in many parts of the UK. Its an English city with a very English climate. This is one reason for the question posed in my earlier post(s)

Cheers Martin

[Pete Howlett]

UK is defined as 'temperate'. RH is way above 45%. I guess that checking is caused by a very dry climate. My experience is totally with the UK, studying about it first for my degree then buying, drying and trying to get high yields out of exotics for the past 34 years... like building, there are no easy answers.

[Kim]

Pete,

Just for clarification, Darwin, where Jim lives and is attempting to process this wood, is in the tropical Northern Territory of Australia. It is very humid in the the wet season and, unless one is quite fast on their feet and can avoid being devoured by a salt water crocodile, can be quite humid in the dry season as well. Only two seasons in the tropics, wet time and feeding time.

Cheers

Kim

[Pete Howlett]

Dooohhh! 'Scuse my ignorance fellas I've just Googled a map of Australia and now I understand the geography a bit more. Am I right in thinking that everyone lives around the edges of Australia and only the insane live in the middle bit? That the North is 'tropical' and the south more architypical 'Neighbours' Australia if you get my drift. And before you say it, I live in South Wales which is totally not like the Welsh soap Pobl y Cwm

[Pete Howlett]

I visited this websiteand have this from the spec:

The timber saws well except for a tendency to be woolly in cross grain. It seasons rapidly, with little degradation; however, tension may occasionally cause splitting and warping. It is favoured for furniture, high-class joinery, trim and boat building.

Unless you have a stressed tree, it must be the way you are drying it!

[kiwigeo]

Dooohhh! 'Scuse my ignorance fellas Smile I've just Googled a map of Australia and now I understand the geography a bit more. Am I right in thinking that everyone lives around the edges of Australia and only the insane live in the middle bit? That the North is 'tropical' and the south more architypical 'Neighbours' Australia if you get my drift.

Much of the centre of Australia is desert so only insane people tend to live there. The looneys who don't go to the desert generally migrate south to Adelaide or north to Darwin.

[Allen]

And over in Cairns, its bloody hot and humid for most of the year too. Not quite as much as Darwin mind you, but we've got our fair number of loons here as well.

[Pete Howlett]

So where is the drought?

[kiwigeo]

So where is the drought?

Adelaide is in drought.....we generally don't get any rain from December right through to April. You can water your garden only on certain days of the week and car washing has to be done using buckets. The Murray River is so decimated that it hasn't flowed at its mouth for years.

[liam_fnq]

And the reason Adelaide has no water is because half the farming land in the Murry-Darling basin has been bought up by conglomerates who stock pile the water leaving none for those down stream. I believe Cubby Station in western Queensland has more water than Sydney Harbour..........

Liam. Cairns loon.

[DarwinStrings]

No drought here, we average about 1.8 metres per annum, most of that falling from November through to march. Here are the stats Allen to compare Cairns to Darwin.... Darwin http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/ ... 4015.shtml Cairns http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/ ... 1011.shtml

I can not access your link for some reason Pete but am willing to gamble that the description you have posted is for Khaya senegalensis grow in its natural environment in Africa. I am not sure you can compare the Darwin one to the African one. Those pics I showed are typical of air dried Khaya in Darwin sawn at 50mm and do not fit the description. The pic I showed of me hugging the tree shows a tree that has a diameter of 1100mm and it is 25 years old. I guess they don't grow that fast in a African forest.

What do you mean by "stressed" Pete and I will try to shed some light on that.

Jim

Someone please turn up the Tele!

[Bob Connor]

We're in drought in Melbourne. Can't water sports grounds or lawns so the golf courses have gone to the pack.

Winter here is aroung 12 degrees average and summer can vary between 20 and 50 degrees.

Average year round humidity is 60%.

[Kim]

Less than a month to go and its the driest winter on record here in the West. We have already had sprinkler restrictions in place all year but now they are talking about ramping them up to cope thru summer.

[jeffhigh]

It's been a wet cold winter here.
We are a Big country with lots of different climates.

[Allen]

Looks like we end up getting about 200mm more rain a year than Darwin. Feels like it too some years. Shocked Still, it's bloody marvellous this time of year.

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